#010 – Behind The Scenes of Jen Esquer’s 6 Figure Launch and 400,000+ Followers on Instagram

What drives us forward? One word: Movement.

That’s been the story of Jen Esquer, a well-studied private sports therapist whose fondness of anatomy moved her to the lane of success.  

Being active since she was a young child, Jen has learned to love the specificity of body movement. From gymnastics to pilates, her extensive history studying anatomy and physiology inspired her to embark upon a meaningful path towards entrepreneurship.

“Get out of your own way, and things start to open up.”

Since discovering her purpose, Jen has made it her life’s mission to heal the world by empowering others to heal themselves. Now she spends her time creating programs, workshops and treatments that help keep the body in peak physical shape.   

“Take care of yourself, sit with your energy—meditate, work out. You have to take care of YOU first in order to be able to translate that out to other people.”

Find out more on what stirs Jen to action; listen to her talk about the biggest mindset changes she’s experienced, how a sound body is a sound base for a strong business and how she consistently lives her best life on purpose.

In this Podcast we talk about:

  • How Jen had such a highly successful launch of her first digital product
  • How to overcome paralyzing fears and take action as an entrepreneur
  • How Jen has grown her instagram account to more than 400K followers

Take a Step in the Right Direction:

IG: @docjenfit

Events that Moved her:

Ascension Leadership Academy in San Diego
Radical Acceptance

Loved this and want more? Check out our other episodes here.

Spark a conversation! Say hello @alexbeadon on Instagram.

Transcript Available Below

Alex Beadon 0:00
If you want to know how to have a highly successful launch in your business, this is the episode to listen to today’s guest, Jen s. Kerr launched her online course for the first time and made more than 100,000 US dollars. That’s right. In this episode, she shares exactly how she did it, the fear she had to overcome in order to make it happen. And we talked about how she’s managed to grow her Instagram account to more than 400,000 followers. Welcome to on purpose. Do you ever feel like you’re trying to balance it all, nourishing your health while growing your business and living a life well lived. And no matter how hard you try, sometimes you slip from purpose driven into autopilot. Take a deep breath, relax, and let’s get you back to where you belong. On purpose.

Hey, friends,

welcome to episode number 10. Of on purpose with Alex Beadon, I am so pumped that we have finally reached double digits literally, I could not be more excited. But I would be more excited if we were at triple digits. Cannot wait for that day really excited. Anyway, today I’m talking to physical therapist and private sports therapist, Jen s care. What I love most about Jen is that she is someone who shows in a really unique path as a physical therapist, by deciding to put a lot of focus in building her personal brand and her online presence, so much so that she now has a following of more than 400,000 people on Instagram. And the very first launch of her online course at the end of 2017 made over six figures. It was amazing to hear how Jen has accomplished so much so quickly. And I think you’re going to love this episode. If you want to take a quick moment to find her on Instagram. Her username is Doc Jen fit. So D OC Jen fit doc Jen fits, definitely go and check her out. But I think you’re really going to enjoy this. So take a listen. And when you’re done, hit me up on Instagram and let me know what did you think? Enjoy, guys, and thank you so much for being on the podcast with us today. I’m so happy to have you here.

Jen Esquer 2:21
Well, thank you for having me. I’m excited.

Alex Beadon 2:23
The very first question that I have for you is what do you find most nourishing about having your own business?

Jen Esquer 2:32
It’s really down to the core of what I do. It’s exactly, it’s fulfilling my why my purpose in terms of what I’m trying to create. So it’s like, my business just runs off of my connection to being able to relate that to people so that they understand they can grab onto it. And the more that I’m able to connect that to relate that to people to get them to understand and feel my why the more the business grows. And so it’s it’s all about that connection, that getting back to my why. And that’s really what I do, why I do what I do and why I have the business.

Alex Beadon 3:16
Can you tell us more about your relationship to your purpose, first share with us what you would think that your purpose is? And then have you always been connected to your purpose? Like how did that come about? Yeah, so

Jen Esquer 3:32
my, my why my purpose is really being able to get people out of the mindset of you get fixed by someone else. But it’s really you get to fix yourself. And the more that they understand that connection, the more people start to take ownership for their own bodies start to tap into their own bodies, move their own bodies and get out of pain and injury on their own. And so that’s really what I want to bring to the world. That’s my mission. Right? As a physical therapist, I don’t fix you. That’s not it’s not my goal. That’s not my mission, but you’re able to fix yourself. And really, I feel like that’s translated into my own business and being able to become an entrepreneur just by following that path. And following that mission, I knew I loved the body. And so I wanted to get into physical therapy. I taught Pilates. I coached gymnastics, but it was never really getting I wanted more. I was always asking why, well, why is this and why do I modify this and why do they have pain here? Why am I taping an ankle? You know, so it was? It wasn’t for me enough. I was always asking more. And so I went to physical therapy school. That was great. But then I continued to say, well, I know the basics now but how do I really help someone? How do I really get, you know, pain away or put vent injury. And so I started learning more I would, I worked at a place that I made sure I had mentorship and continue taking courses. And as that started to grow, and as I felt like I could start to reach out and help people more and kind of dive into that deeper, I realized that a clinic setting wasn’t where it was supposed to be. And so I went off and I did my own thing. And I started having my own clients and my own outside of the clinic. And that was great. So

Alex Beadon 5:30
been hard for you, though. Because isn’t that like the traditional path? Oh, 100%. Yeah, that must have been really fearful for you.

Jen Esquer 5:39
It was and it was almost like a crazy transition in my head, that perspective that just had like, all of a sudden, one day, I was like, why am I still working here? I’m done. And it was almost like, I just had to take that immediate leap when I felt the energy was there at the right time. And this has always been my thing is like, I haven’t rushed anything, I’ve definitely followed my own path and followed what I felt like was the right timing. Because yeah, I could have started my own thing right out of grad school, I already had a bit of a following. And I could have just used that and try to hustle on my own. But for me, it didn’t feel real, yet it didn’t feel authentic. I didn’t feel ready. And so I followed my path of No, this is where I need to be. I’m still learning, I’m still learning. And I think that’s okay. Because you’ll get to the point where you’re like, I can continue learning now. And I feel like I can go off and I can help people in a different way. And so once I made that transition, it was amazing. And then it came into well, I want to be able to help people more, how can I reach a broader audience without having to see them in person and without having to work on them? One on one. And so it was like, How can I now translate that into an online market? Yeah,

Alex Beadon 7:02
that’s really cool. So were you always leaning in the entrepreneurial direction? Like, did you always know that was the direction but you were kind of just waiting for the right time?

Jen Esquer 7:13
Honestly, no. Oh,

Alex Beadon 7:17
where did this? Like? Where did it come from? Where did this idea come from? That you were like, oh, I should maybe do my own thing and do it online. Like both of those things. I feel like number one doing your own thing. And then number two, bringing it online. There’s not that many people will at least not that I know of who are doing what you’re doing online.

Jen Esquer 7:36
Right? There’s not a lot, for sure. I mean, and they don’t teach you any it mean you barely learn business stuff when you’re going through and becoming a clinician, let alone anything online. But it really was. So in my last year of PT school, my boyfriend was getting worked on by someone at his home. And she was a chiropractor, but she had her own table shattered on tools. And I remember watching her work on him. And I was like, she’s doing my job. She’s like a physical therapist. She’s doing soft tissue, she’s doing exercises with him. And I was like, What the heck. And so that’s when I first started to ask questions. And I asked her, I was like, how are you doing this? You don’t have to go through a clinic. You don’t need insurance. Like what? I had no idea, I literally had no idea what this was. And so she was the first person that kind of sparked my interest in like, oh, I can set my own schedule, I can take on my own clients, I can work the way I want to work, especially now because as a physical therapist, we had direct access, meaning that we didn’t have to have a doctor’s referral to see clients where in the past you always did as a physical therapist, and chiropractors never had to, which is why, you know, they’ve been able to thrive in business a lot, I think a lot further along than physical therapists have. So that’s what first sparked my interest. And so even when I was working at the clinic, I started taking clients on my own on the side and kind of going to a CrossFit and and seeing how that felt. Right. And so that’s what first started to kind of pique my interest and then having the relationship I had I was surrounded by people that were in the online market and, and doing businesses online. So that did pique my interest in terms of like, well, can I take my social media presence and turn this into something that I could reach more people?

Alex Beadon 9:29
Yeah, okay, cool. So there’s so many directions I want to go down. Okay, first, before we go down the social media direction, I want to talk about kind of your journey as an entrepreneur because I know okay, you made the decision, you decided to go online, great, fine, whatever, but like was that the initial thing was like, Okay, I’m gonna step out on my own and do this online thing, or did you kind of step out on your own? Have your own private clients and then dive into the art because you have the mobility method, which I know is your online Horse. And I feel like I really wasn’t paying much attention. But I feel like very quickly after I saw on Instagram that you’d gone out on your own, you launched the mobility method, is that correct?

Jen Esquer 10:12
Yeah, it was about six months, right? I had been working on my own. And then I decided to create an online course. So it was funny. I like, I took the leap of faith had like, zero clients and was like, Well, I’m just gonna see what happens. I literally told my bosses, I was like, I have a week, guys, I can’t give you two weeks because I have a lot to figure out on my own. So and they ended up being OK with that everyone was really nice. So I ended up like fully, picking up a full six day schedule really quickly working like eight hours a day. And and then as I started to, like, kind of dive in and say, Well, can I take this on mine, I had to scale back, I was like, Okay, I can’t work six days a week, there’s no way. So I went down to four. And then I went down to three men two, and now I’m down to one. Because it’s just a lot of energy to try to learn how to, you know, translate what I’m trying to do, and take that online and just learn online entrepreneur, online businesses is a beast, you know, and people think, Oh, you have a social media following that means that you could just come out with a program and kill it, maybe. And that, that used to work really, really well. But if you don’t know how to do online marketing, then you’re not going to be successful and be able to reach people the way you want to. So there was so much that I needed to learn. And I continue to learn. So I just

Alex Beadon 11:43
had the housing.

Jen Esquer 11:46
Exactly. So I had to scale back on my in person clients. And that just kind of came with time again, just like kind of figuring out the path of, of how is this going to work and trial and error and figuring out what my own system gets to be?

Alex Beadon 12:01
And do you think that you would like to be at the point where you are not working with clients at all in it’s all online? Or do you think that it’s super beneficial to at least have ones once a week?

Jen Esquer 12:13
For me right now, I think it is beneficial to have once a week clients only because what I do in person is different still than what I can take online, I haven’t figured out how I can really take the deep neurological stuff and translate that into an online program because it is so complicated, weird and different. So I love being able to still see the difference that I’m able to make in a person that comes to me only a few times, you know, again, I’m not fixing anyone, I’m just facilitating. So being able to do that in person is still such a powerful thing for me. So for right now, it’s once a week unless I’m gone on vacation or something which does happen. So and we’ll see. We’ll see where that evolved into.

Alex Beadon 13:01
I love that. Okay, cool. So I’d love for you to tell us about your business model. The mobility method, how many times have you launched it? How’s it been going?

Jen Esquer 13:12
Yeah. First launch was in November.

Alex Beadon 13:17
So really, that was the first launch first launch. I feel like it was so much longer ago. When I saw the forest launch, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. Wow. Okay. It was just it was just recently then.

Jen Esquer 13:31
Mm hmm. So it wasn’t even that long ago. And I was it was funny. It was like, I just in September, I think it was when I was like, I’m going to do an online program. Right? I don’t know how I’m going to do it. But I’m going to do it. And I remember sitting in on just a couple of different like meetings and conferences and being like, oh my god, this is so cool. And I’m learning so much stuff. And then the next day I’d be like, I have no idea what they just said cuz I don’t know what any of that mean. And it’s like, again, I had this huge social media following but no email list, right? Let alone do I know what like a squeeze pages are an opt in? Like I didn’t know any of these things, right? Crazy. And so I started pulling in girlfriends that have been doing this for a while and I’d be like, oh, let’s let’s go get coffee or let’s create a mastermind how fun would that be? And like just getting people like together so that I can learn from other people. And that was super helpful. Luckily, I do have amazing friends who are open and abundant and willing to share. I started going to conferences, going to and just reaching out to people that I was probably afraid to reach out to and ask a question, but I just did and I was just like in a phase of like, I’m going to push it I’m gonna do whatever it takes and and they were actually willing to sit down with me and to go over like like what my launch would look like and suggest books I should read and, and things like that. And so saw so beneficial, so helpful. And I decided to launch in November and kind of do, like, get people back into the gratitude of what mobility is. And so I did the challenge leading into it. And it because, you know, it kind of followed gratitude and thanksgiving, that’s what I wanted to like, kind of, you know, stay in the, in the same realm and same mindset of, and it ended up being so powerful, I ended up getting other friends to be able to promote my free challenge, not my program, but my free challenge and get other people to, you know, talk about it and get signups and opt in. So all of a sudden, I built us, I think I had almost 11,000 opt ins in the washer. Oh, that’s

Alex Beadon 15:53
amazing. And you had a competition as well, didn’t you?

Jen Esquer 15:57
So it was the challenge. And I would pick three random winners and I giving away a prize. And then I literally followed like Jeff Walker’s launch sequence in terms of like, how I was talking to people in the mindset. And I also had a boyfriend who was like, Okay, do another live, do another story, do another, like really pushed me. And even though it was scary, like I just did a live like, why are people gonna want to hear. And every time I did, though, people were able to connect with my why they were able to connect with why I was doing this, it’s not to take your money, like, I don’t want your money, I want to help you, I want you to understand why this is important in your own body. And when I was able to connect that to people, sales would go through, I would net more people buying and it was an again, it’s not for the result. But it was just for the connection. And every time I was able to connect back to that, again, it would work, it would work. And it was like, Really, it pushed my boundaries, it pushed me out of my comfort zone to really how much can I get out there because I never talked to my audience like this, I never sold anything. I’ve just been giving value for the last two years, like, here’s all the free stuff, here’s how to help your body. And, and then all of a sudden, now I’m saying here’s how you can put this in one place and have it tangible for you. And so it was just it was amazing. It was powerful it was it went way better than expected. And I just because I I put down, you know, my, my fear of looking weird or being judged or, you know, asking for help, I have more support. And I got it. I had friends who one of my friends, he was the first one who kind of guided me into how I should be posting for, for social media in terms of talking about the body and how I should structure that. And he actually, he’s huge in the rehab world online. And he put my link in his bio stories for me, he talked about how proud he was of me and opposed, it was the cutest thing, but he like so to get other people who are in my same field, doing close to what I’m doing. And getting their support met so much.

Alex Beadon 18:24
That’s amazing. I love so much of what you just said. Okay, so one thing that I love that you said is that you were putting yourself out there way more than you were ever than you ever had before way more than you were comfortable putting yourself out there. What was that time like for you? Because I know, a lot of the doubts and fears that come up are like people are gonna get annoyed. Like, I always tell my clients and like you have to like, literally feel like a broken record. What’s interesting is that, like, I remember I only saw you go live once, right? I only whereas I think the thought that goes through people’s minds is like, oh my gosh, people are gonna get so sick of hearing me. But really, people are probably only going to catch one, maybe two, you know that people don’t see most of what you’re posting. Fortunately, the algorithms change and everything happened. So yeah, you’re right. People are How often were you going live during that time?

Jen Esquer 19:25
During the launch time I was going live probably every day and then on the last like two days of my launch. So following the launch sequence, you know, it’s usually an open closed, closed cart. I didn’t close the cart, but I was I was giving away an early bird pricing and so the price was gonna go up. And so I was doing honestly like three lives a day by the last two days. Wow, that’s all morning, afternoon night. I was like, here’s my morning coffee. How are you guys?

Alex Beadon 19:58
That’s so cool. I like that. Uh, I like that you were just like, I gotta put myself out there and like that it made you uncomfortable. And you did it anyway. And I love what you said about asking for help, even from people who you think would have zero interest in helping you through this, people love being of help an end of service. And I mean, you might say no, and no one’s gonna die.

Jen Esquer 20:20
Yeah, and it’s totally fine. And I did have friends who are like, You know what, I can’t promote that challenge. And I’m like, No, oh, good. Yeah. And I said, if there’s anything, I can help you with it, please let me know. And, you know, it’s no hard feelings it gets. Yeah, like nothing

Alex Beadon 20:35
personal. Yeah, no, not at all. I’m also super interested by the fact that you had this huge Instagram account before you even began your journey as an online entrepreneur. So I’d love to hear what has your experience with Instagram be have been like, how did you get started? How has it evolved? Where are you at with it today? Tell us a little bit about that.

Jen Esquer 20:59
Yeah, so it got started accidentally. I was in I was in grad school at the time, and I was posting my workouts which typically are outside. And I would do like, because I used to run a lot. And I would do that a lot. And that’s relative. I would run for cardio, and then I would do a lot of calisthenic work. So like on the bars and pull ups leg lifts kind of continued with my gymnastics kind of training because I loved the feel of like the body weight and, and just being able to maintain that strength. And so I would post about it. And then I would tag the calisthenic pages, which four years ago, one of them had like 300,000 followers, which four years ago that’s following Yeah, exactly. So he reached out and he was like, Hey, we all get together in Venice. Like you should come meet up with us. And so I was like, okay, cool. And I ended up going down to Venice Beach and training with them. They were so nice. Like, these jacked guys who do these bars are like, greeting me one by one as I’m like, planning. They’re so cute. But they were they were so nice. And he would post anyone who was in the calisthenic community, right? And so naturally, he started posting me and I was like, uh, so I just do handstands now. And so I just kind of it’s shifted into my journey and I he asked me to compete, so I started training to compete and calisthenics. Wow, it was just like a little side hobby from school. It was like I don’t want to study right now. Let me post a video. So it was fun. It was fun to meet a new community of people. I started getting in contact with a lot of the yogi’s because I was upside down and doing handstands. And so I started hosting challenges with Yogi’s and meeting different people in that aspect, getting it’s cool I did to influencer events and just hanging with people who love to move their bodies and all these amazing cool ways. And so I felt like so it was just such a cool feeling to have these cool friends. I’d have like Cirque du Soleil friends and some calisthenics, and Yogi’s and all these different people who were amazing in my eyes. So it was really fun, and it was purely a hobby. And then I graduated, and I was like, Well, I kind of I don’t I don’t know if I care about this anymore. And I was already at 100,000 followers. Wow. But I it was like steady, it didn’t grow any more. And I was just like this is I’m a PT now. Why am I doing this? This is like, this isn’t my job. I shouldn’t be focusing on it. And that’s when my friend Vinnie rehab met up with him in Toronto and he was like, why aren’t you posting like anatomy type stuff? Why aren’t you talking about the body and I was like well I’m a new PT I just graduated I don’t have the knowledge yet and and it was that fear of being judged of not being at that level I should be of like, Oh, what if other PTS who’ve been doing this for years now see my stuff and they’re like what is she doing? You know, so it was it was having that that just the fear of putting myself out there and that in that aspect hiding behind fitness and doing cool things with my body? That was easy. Yeah. I didn’t have to I didn’t even have to show my face a lot because I was afraid of being judged for how I looked I was afraid there was just so much I was afraid of and so I just was resistant to a lot of things until I just decided to listen to him and I did one video and it took off and I was interested in this and so I started doing it more and people liked it more and and then I changed my name to doctrine fit because it be Jen underscore e s underscore care. Oh wow. Nothing to do with anything. My name is And so I changed my name got serious and started like posting regularly about the body and everything and it took I grew over 200,000 Just from posting educational things.

Alex Beadon 25:13
That is amazing. And the

Jen Esquer 25:15
more I did it, the more people loved it. And which was also gratifying because I’m like, Oh, my God, people want to actually learn. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Then I started, like, meeting mentors and meeting other therapists that I admired that I thought I wasn’t good enough yet, or so it was just like, it just goes to show, you know, get out of your own way. And things start to open up.

Alex Beadon 25:40
Yeah. And it’s funny that you touched on that fear part. Because that is, I would say, like one of the top three excuses that I hear all the time of why people don’t want to make content. They’re like, Oh, but what if I say something wrong? Like, I don’t know everything. And it’s like, you don’t need to know everything. You just need to be able to help one person or inspire one person and it’ll be worth it. And you might stumble, or you might fall in like, so. Learn and you’ll move on.

Jen Esquer 26:04
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Alex Beadon 26:06
So how important would you say your Instagram has been for the growth of your business and the success of your business?

Jen Esquer 26:17
For getting started, for sure has been the number one thing that’s helped me,

Alex Beadon 26:22
I guess you said, you didn’t have an email list when you first launched? Was that a six figure launch? I feel like I heard that that was a six figure launch somewhere. It was. Okay. So that was it was clearly a very successful launch, especially for your first launch. So you would say that that really had a lot to do with the fact that you were well connected, people were supporting you, and that you had this awesome Instagram account to utilize 100%? And how because you said at the beginning, it was helpful, maybe not so much anymore. How do you feel about your Instagram account? Now?

Jen Esquer 26:57
I definitely still feel like it helps. I mean, I, I do feel like my growth has kind of slowed down. I mean, things are just hard to figure out. And I don’t I don’t sit there trying to figure it out, right? Because it’s just a waste of time. Like people reach out. They’re like, Oh, algorithms change. I’m like, Dude, it’s changing all the time. Yeah, you know, it’s not something that we can, unless you’re in Facebook, and Instagram and like working it, I don’t think we’ll really have a full grasp on it. So So and it’s like a rabbit hole. It really is. So do the best you can in terms of putting out amazing content and things that you know, are going to be catched not only from your audience, but mainly from other people like scrolling through the popular page, why are they going to want to click on you, I always say Instagram is a billboard. It is your billboard, it is something that needs to look catchy, it needs to look just like everything is going to be viral, which is hard to determine you can’t determine you never know, but do your best.

Alex Beadon 28:03
I want to kind of dissect a little bit into what you just said, before we move on. You said Yeah, want to create content that’s eye catching, not just your ideal client. Mm hmm. So talk to me about that. Because if we’re trying to attract our ideal clients, what I think what you’re trying to say is that basically, the more people you have coming to your Instagram account, the more people are actually going to see your content. Yes, the more chances you’ll actually have of hitting your ideal client.

Jen Esquer 28:27
Yeah, correct. Yeah. And when you when someone first sees you, and then they go, and maybe they’ll want to follow you for a hot second, because they’re like, well, this person may be looked a little interesting, you’re gonna show up in their stories. First, you’re gonna show up in their feed first when they first follow you. So if you have some good content that’s coming up first, or they may be click your store and they start to hear a little bit from you, they like your personality, maybe, maybe there is like a free challenge that you’re running or your course is just landing or you have a webinar that’s coming out or whatever it may be. And they get to hear that first because they’re just like, kind of curious. Like that is it’s always your moment, it’s always your moment to to step up to show who you are, and to be able to convey that to anyone who might come across your page.

Alex Beadon 29:16
That’s interesting. Okay, cool. What did I cut you off? You were gonna say something else, and I cut you off. Do you remember what it was?

Jen Esquer 29:25
I don’t know if I do, but that’s okay.

Alex Beadon 29:28
Any more thoughts on Instagram before we wrap up and move on to the next topic?

Jen Esquer 29:34
I just say, you know, don’t be afraid to reach out and connect. I even I worked at a physical when I first worked at the physical therapy clinic. There was a guy there who he had blocked me when we work together because he was trying to build his own following and I was like, Excuse me, I could have helped you like, we could have collaborated. I had a lot more followers than me Yeah, and don’t be closed off to anyone, whether they’re in your space, whether you’re just unsure, like, be open. And if it doesn’t work for you fine, like you move on, you know, but be open, be collaborative reach out to people, the more that you reach out, the more people are like, Oh, this is actually like a really cool person. They’re really nice. Like, people want to be surrounded by nice, cool people, people who are going to be supportive. So comment, like, go reach out, be open to people who are even in your same space and your same industry, because there’s a lot that you can learn from other people.

Alex Beadon 30:39
I want to talk to you about your routine and your lifestyle. So firstly, I want to know, how do you structure your weeks? I know you said that one day a week you’re working privately with one on one clients, what is the rest of your week look like? Oh, man.

Jen Esquer 30:54
I would say I’m still trying to figure out my structure.

But it really is it’s content creation. So I’m constantly thinking, anytime I have a new idea, I have a notepad that I just go to, and I write it down. And like, if someone asks a question about something, I’m like, Oh, I can create a video on that. I’m gonna write that down. So. So it’s constantly having an open mind to be able to write things down and kind of come up with things as I as I feel like I, I can. And then it’s also answering emails and managing my team and just a lot of content creation. I mean, as someone who writes programs and and has an Instagram, and if you’re in this world, it is going to be a lot of constant. Yeah, whether it’s writing newsletters, blogs, whatever it may be.

Alex Beadon 31:50
What does your content currently look like? Obviously, I know you’re on Instagram, you have an email list. I assume you’re sending out weekly emails. Yeah. What else are you making? Do you have a YouTube channel?

Jen Esquer 32:02
It is in the works. Okay, cool.

Alex Beadon 32:05
Yeah. So right now, is it just mainly you’re focusing on Instagram and email list?

Jen Esquer 32:10

Alex Beadon 32:11
Do you have a blog?

Jen Esquer 32:14
Yeah, rough. I have a few blog posts. But it’s all like a main focus. It is. So not a main focus. And even people that I learned from who used to blog all the time there, they’re switching, doing blogging less. Yeah. And figuring out how they can optimize in other areas better. And I’m really learning as well. So it’s like, how can I translate taking, you know, someone from whether it’s an Instagram post or a swipe up in a story and just taking them straight to the the email list rather than even a blog post. So some people take it straight to a blog post that hopefully, hopefully takes them back into the email list. I’m usually just taking them straight, either into the program or into the email list.

Alex Beadon 33:03
I’m curious about your email list when you’re sending out or even Instagram as well, I know that mainly, so you said you have the mobility method, which focuses on being able to move with ease, correct? How far do you kind of shift away from that in your content? Like how, how often are you veering into other topics? Um, or do you mainly try to just talk about that, because you know that that’s what you’re selling?

Jen Esquer 33:36
I would say I probably only do that about specifically talking about mobility or showing like a mobility flow. I specifically do that probably once a week, sometimes even less. But I would say all my content is kind of geared around, like, how can you open up? How can you mobilize? How can you decrease restrictions in an area so so I’m probably talking about it a lot more than I even realized or other people realize, but a lot of it is still geared around. And what is attractive, unfortunately, to most people is like, oh, shoulder pain, my pain is right there. How do I increase that? How do I decrease that? How do I you know, so, unfortunately, I do still have to talk a lot about just pain in one area in order for it to be attractive, which isn’t necessarily what my passion and my goal is, but But hopefully, then, if I’m able to at least attract them that way, then I’m able to translate into that as they start to see my content more and more, it’s like, well, that painful area doesn’t necessarily mean you know, you do these exercises, it might be coming from your big toe, it might be coming from a different area. So then I hopefully drop them into more education as they start to follow me.

Alex Beadon 34:54
I love that you mentioned that because I think so many people are don’t really want to talk about certain things. things that actually are what’s going to bring the, the, the level of understanding that their ideal client has, that’s what’s going to attract them. So I love that you touched on that. What’s been the hardest part so far about being an entrepreneur?

Jen Esquer 35:14
Um, you know, right now, I have to admit that it’s just been really exciting. I don’t put a lot of pressure on myself in terms of like how something’s going to do. I just like, here’s another experiment. For me. It’s like, it’s always experimenting, you never really know what’s going to happen. Yeah. And when you let go of the expectation of like, I need to hit a six figure launch, or I need to do this or you stop comparing yourself to other people as well, and how they’ve done. You’re just able to, like play with it and kind of see like, well, maybe this post will do? Well, let’s just try it out. Let’s experiment. Let’s see what this newsletter does. Like, I even had a newsletter where I forgot to change the subject line. So it said new broadcast, and it actually got more clicks. Oh, my God, what did I do? And then

Alex Beadon 36:08
you’re like, Oh, well, yeah.

Jen Esquer 36:11
So it’s like, it’s all just an experiment. You all you just get to kind of play with it and see how what is the best message? Or best way for me to relay my message? How am I going to connect with more people, and every time you did dig back into that, why that connection that where it’s truly coming from of what you want to create, and what you’re trying to help, hopefully with the world, then you’re able to just have it grow and let go of expectations.

Alex Beadon 36:41
I’m sure I love all of that. Everything you just said is like, one of the I think it’s one of the big things that stops people from achieving success is that they put so much pressure on this one launch, it’s like, Now or never, you know, and then they fail. And they’re like, Oh, well, it wasn’t meant for me. Whereas you’re just like, I’m just experimenting, and I’m gonna keep experimenting until I find what works. So that is epic. I want to know what you think your experience as a physical therapist? How has it benefited you as an entrepreneur? Like how do you see things differently as a physical therapist, as an entrepreneur?

Jen Esquer 37:23
For me, as a physical therapist, I think it it’s just been a game of how to relate my particular message in terms of what people typically think physical therapy is, and what I’m trying to say about it. I even I met with a chiropractor, a couple a few weeks ago, and he’s like, oh, yeah, well, physical, like I do the chiropractic and then sometimes I send them to physical therapists. And I’m like, Well, what do you think a physical therapist does. Because a lot of times, it’s still the mindset of the chiropractor does the adjustment and the physical therapist does the strengthening. And that’s how we work, right? But in my mindset, it’s like no person who wants to facilitate and help is going to facilitate and help whether that means no matter what that looks like, across the board, because to be honest, physical therapists can do adjustments, we call them manipulation, right? Eye chiropractor can do soft tissue massage and exercise the same way that we can. So it’s, it’s just a person helping and facilitating a person rather than, you know, this is what you know, we do ultrasound, and we do electrical stimulation and this mindset of like, one sided of what a physical therapist is what it does, that we, we you only see a physical therapist after surgery, or you only see a physical therapist of your, if your doctor tells you you need to go see. So just changing the mindset has been really interesting as an entrepreneur, because you don’t see a lot of physical therapists, entrepreneurs. And if they are, they’re usually I think the one who really got us started and did an amazing job is Kelly stret. And he spoken to CrossFitters and read a book and, and really got the idea of biomechanics coming from a physical therapy standpoint. So he did amazing and changing the mindset of fat, but it still gets to shift it still gets to be changed in a lot of people. And so just being an entrepreneur in that way and kind of seeing how can I talk to people that they start to understand what I’m really saying what I mean, what a and getting it out of the mindset of the traditional rehabilitation are boring words that just don’t connect with people. Yeah.

Alex Beadon 39:49
You’re like a natural marketer. I don’t know where this comes from. But you I just am listening to you and I’m like, I hope everyone listening to this is translating it to their own way. Whatever it is that they’re doing, because no matter which field you’re in, you should be looking at it. Like, how can I make this? So me? And so like, how do I make my message stand out? How do I make sure that when someone sees whatever it is that I’ve created, that it immediately captures their attention and really teaches them something new or whatever, I love everything you just said, like that was so so brilliant. And I think it’s just people need to apply it to every single field, like no matter which field you’re in, because it works even as busy like even more. So if your field is super populated online, like you need to learn how to communicate it in a in a unique way. So that was brilliant. I love that. What do you think is one piece of advice that could greatly benefit the life of an online entrepreneur that is most often ignored.

Jen Esquer 40:50
Self Care?

Alex Beadon 40:51
Oh, tell me about that.

Jen Esquer 40:54
Because I think especially even me who’s a physical therapist and and getting other people that move, you know, it’s like I am all of a sudden sitting at my computer for hours on hours. And I’m like, Oh, my God. Self Care is hugely important. Plus, it’s just going to get like, when you’re able to take care of yourself and tap into whatever that is that looks like so whether that’s going to a float tank or getting massage or working out, or you can just got to, you have to kind of sit with your energy, whether that’s meditating, or whatever it looks like for you, but you have to take care of you first, in order for you to be able to translate that out to other people and start to create more and just move your energy. That’s what I usually it’s like, I will get pent up, I’ll get stressed out, moods will start to shift, I’m not going to be able to connect with people if I’m not moving my energy. So I have to my self care for me personally is movement.

Alex Beadon 41:53
Hmm. I like that I was listening to a podcast today actually. And they were talking about how so often, self care is like, you know, meditate or journal or visualize or whatever and actually moving your body and the energy in your body is such a big part of self care.

Jen Esquer 42:09
So huge, so huge. And I don’t even just mean like, pop on a podcast and go for a walk or something. But like get out of your environment that you’re sitting in, especially as a new online entrepreneur, there is so much thinning, there is so much learning there’s is a lot of overwhelm at first. So being able to get out of that environment. And, and yeah, like you said, move the energy just shift and

Alex Beadon 42:37
my next question is, have you ever been given business advice that didn’t sit well with you or just intuitively felt off? And you were like, Oh, that just sounds miserable? Like how do you kind of decipher between this is good business advice that’s pushing me outside of my child, my comfort zone and it’s challenging me and bad business advice, that maybe it’s good and maybe it works, but it just doesn’t feel authentic to

Jen Esquer 43:05
it always has to come it always has to hit me and be able to convey my why if it’s going to take away from my message that I’m trying to share with people even if it might look more attractive, I’m not going to do it right so like for example, I’ve been told I have a new program a membership site and it’s it has functional HIIT workouts and so it does have workouts in it as well as mobility and core. And I was told oh you know you can like on the main sales page, lose fat, lose weight that kind of thing. And I was like no, I can’t do that is not my why that is not my message. Like if I’m getting someone to move and work out it is purely to start to strengthen things they might not know about start to increase the heart rate like I’m looking at it completely functionally I’m they’re not coming to me to lose weight. I’m not their personal trainer and I’m not going to dive into that so if it is not going to get out my why I’m not going to do it even if it would attract more people even if that was not my audience and it’s not what I want to do so that I’m like super adamant about like no

Alex Beadon 44:27
I’m gonna challenge you I’m gonna give you I’d love to know your your thoughts on this. So you know they have these bots right that you can put onto your Instagram account and it will go and like other people’s photos, which is smart because it’s getting your account onto the little notifications of other people’s account which is introducing people to you. Technically it’s not as bad as like the follow unfollow method where like, I think that’s a little bit more slimy. I’d love to know your thoughts on that because I’ve been I’m thinking about this, and I’m so divided part of me is like, I can I can get on board the liking thing, because it’s like, it’s a good marketing technique. It’s getting my name out there, whatever. And it’s it and it works. And then on the other side, I’m like, Ah, it’s just so I don’t know, you know?

Jen Esquer 45:18
Honestly, I would say, well, first of all, I thought they killed a lot of those things. And that wasn’t, so I’d be careful with it. Because Instagram has gotten a lot smarter at that. I know, that was a big thing, like three years ago. I think I did the liking thing for a little bit. Yeah. With one of the apps. So I did, I did use it. And what I say to that is, you know, if it’s something where you’re not buying anyone, and you’re not in like, you’re not

Alex Beadon 45:48
tricking them, anyone? Yeah.

Jen Esquer 45:50
Like, there used to be the ones where you could leave a comment. And you could totally tell that comment has nothing to do that. Awful and so I would I would not go into comments or anything, but like, it is just, you know, maybe you would like it without even knowing, you know, so you don’t you don’t know, it just it’s a like, yeah. way of encouraging someone else. So I don’t think it’s bad. I think it’s bad if you’re going to buy fake followers just to make your following look bigger.

Alex Beadon 46:24
First of all, probably not intelligent.

Jen Esquer 46:26
No, it’s not going to relate to business sales. It’s good that your people are going to find out because your likes your engagement, like things are going to be fishy. It’s just, in that sense, be real. And even if it’s, you know, it is hard to grow nowadays. So if that means you’re doing ads, in terms of getting your face out there more and people can see that still means that people have to go click on you and follow you. Yeah, Bill, for me an authentic way to grow even though you’re paying for ads. Very true not paying for followers. So if that’s the way And granted, I haven’t done any of this, I’ve never paid for anything to increase my page, whether that was a shout out or anything, mine has been purely organic. And I’ve been very grateful for that. But may I do ads at a certain point, maybe possibly. And it’s not that I’m not buying fake followers? Like, you’re just increasing your reach in terms of how many people can see we’re all trying to do that.

Alex Beadon 47:27
Yeah. Oh, I love it. Okay. So much of what you said today was brilliant. Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us. Before we wrap up, I have a few fire rapid questions. So what is one thing you do that has been a non negotiable in the success of your business movement? Your mindset shift that has made the biggest difference in your life as an entrepreneur,

Jen Esquer 47:55
getting out of my own way, like really getting out of my, like fear mindset. And I did a leadership course. And that honestly helped. Like if I hadn’t done that leadership course, I probably wouldn’t have been able to step up the way I did and connect with.

Alex Beadon 48:11
What was the name of the leadership course?

Jen Esquer 48:13
I did. It’s called ascension Leadership Academy in San Diego. Cool, highly recommended, even if you don’t live in San Diego, Go to it.

Alex Beadon 48:22
Sounds awesome. I’ll be sure to put that in the show notes as well. So people can go and check it out. Fill in the blank the world would we the world would be a better place if more people knew blank.

Jen Esquer 48:34
Wi mobility was important for their bodies.

Alex Beadon 48:39
The book that changed my life was

Jen Esquer 48:45
radical acceptance.

Alex Beadon 48:47
And lastly, this is my favorite thing from every episode, I asked everyone to challenge our audience to do one thing over the next week. So what’s the one thing that you would like all of our listeners to focus on doing?

Jen Esquer 49:03
Tuning into their bodies? And moving?

Alex Beadon 49:07
So okay, let’s just dive into that for one little minute. When you tune into your body, what does that really mean? Like how for someone who doesn’t even understand? How would you explain to them?

Jen Esquer 49:21
That means when you have an ache or pain or you eat something that’s your like, your stomach doesn’t feel good tune into that What did you just eat? Why would you want to put that back in your body? I mean, it’s not about having a diet. It’s just about awareness, taking care of yourself and loving yourself loving yourself so deep that you’re not going to do something that causes pain or causes hurt. And granted, I’m going to be like, You know what, right now I’m gonna have the pizza and my stomach is gonna hurt. So as long as you have that awareness that that’s gonna happen. That’s okay, but but tapping in so maybe it’s like well sitting this way causes pain are sitting in this chair causes pain. So maybe you’re going to shift, you’re going to start to get out of that. Or maybe you’re going to, you know, try a stretch and say, oh, did that get me out of pain? Could I do that? Can I implement that like, one time throughout my day where it takes two seconds, and I’m suddenly able to not have that pain anymore? So tuning in to what, what feels bad, and what feels good.

Alex Beadon 50:29
Thank you so much, Jen. That was awesome. Can you let everyone know where they can find you online and on Instagram?

Jen Esquer 50:37
Yes, Instagram mainly is where I’ll be I try to honestly answer all my DMs. Sometimes it takes me like a month. So be patient. But I do. So doc Jen fit is where I’m at on Instagram website, YouTube, because I am having that up and coming. So other things Dr. unfit.

Alex Beadon 51:02
That’s awesome. Thank you so much, Jen. And I just really appreciate that you came on the show and I loved getting to know you better. And I just am so I love watching online because I feel like you’re such like you’re just so different to everything else that I’ve seen. And I feel like you’re shining in your own way. So thank you for being you and thank you for the work that you do in the world. And thank you for being on the show.

Jen Esquer 51:25
Yeah, thank you for having me. It was so good connecting.

Alex Beadon 51:30
Thank you so much for tuning into the on purpose podcast and I really hope that you had as much of a blast as we did. If you liked what you heard and want even more make sure you leave a review because it really helps support what I do here on the podcast. All you have to do is search the podcast app for the on purpose podcasts, select it then scroll down until you see write a review and then type away I hope you really enjoy your week and I will see you guys again next time stay on purpose

oh my gosh you guys look how amazing this shrimps are Raja cocktail Lux meet Beatrice, an avid Instagram Stories user and visionary to her followers. I can’t wait till you guys try this out. Yes, I’m talking to all three of you. I’m all two of you. Well, I guess I’m just here by myself now. Why don’t be a basic Beatrice on Instagram. Keep your audience wanting more by learning how to edit your Instagram stories like a pro. Visit www dot gramm and learn these simple free tips that will have your friends impressed with your Instagram Stories for years to come.

#008 – On Hustle As An Art Form, Pursuing A High-Risk Career, and Success As An Introvert With Brooke Shaden

You’ve all but heard it before: “Follow your dreams”, “Turn your dreams into reality.”—the list of clichés goes on and on. But maybe there’s some truth to the hundreds of famous airy quotes about dream following. Maybe they’re just motivational words, for never giving up on your deepest desires. Or maybe it’s even simpler than that.

Maybe they’re just straightforward instructions.    

Brooke Shaden is the physical embodiment of what life would be like to literally follow your dreams.

As a self-portrait artist, she brings back from her slumbers the most imaginative thoughts, transforming them into visual storytelling masterpieces.

And with such an introspective ability to see her dreams, she offers many words of wisdom for those seeking to follow their very own.

“The people who are most successful…are the people who are doing something in their own unique way.”

In this Podcast you’ll learn:

  • How Brooke Shaden broke out of a job she hated to pursue a creative career despite the risk.
  • How she has created success as an introvert.
  • How she engages meaningfully on social media without obsessing about the numbers.
  • How she sees hustle as an art form.

Get lost in Brooke’s story:
IG: @brookeshaden

See her in person:
Promoting Passion Convention
Joshua Tree, CA
October 4-8, 2018

Loved this and want more? Check out our other episodes here.

Spark a conversation! Leave a comment below or say hello @alexbeadon on Instagram.

Transcript Available Below

Alex Beadon 0:00
In today’s episode I speak to world renowned photographer and a dear friend of mine, Brooke Shaden. On how she broke out of a job she hated to pursue a creative career despite the risk, how she has created success as an introvert. How she engages meaningfully on social media without obsessing about the numbers, and on how she sees hustle as an art form. Welcome to on purpose. Do you ever feel like you’re trying to balance it all? nourishing your health while growing your business and living a life well lift? And no matter how hard you try, sometimes you slip from purpose driven into autopilot. Take a deep breath, relax, and let’s get you back to where you belong. On purpose.

Hey, friends, this is episode number eight of on purpose with Alex Beadon. And today I’m super excited to release this episode for two main reasons. Firstly, it is a game changing episode. Regardless of if you are a creative or not. I want you to listen to this episode with an open mind and ask yourself how can you take what Brooke is saying and apply it to your own business? After I finished recording this episode, I could not get Brooks words of wisdom out of my head. No joke, like I was driving the car like after like probably a week after I’d recorded this episode. And I was just like, wow, that was such a game changer. So chances are you’re gonna think it’s a game changer to Secondly, Brooke is a dear friend of mine. As I mentioned, we don’t see or talk to each other very often. But I can tell you I have a deep love and respect for this woman as a creative as a businesswoman. And as a human being who wants to be the best she can be she is. So what’s the word? She’s just such an impressive person in so many different ways. Like really and truly, she is a gem of a human being. She’s a photographer, speaker, author, philanthropist, and one of the most beautiful people I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. Now go enjoy this episode. And when you’re done, don’t forget to go and give her art a look. It is truly one of a kind and absolutely unforgettable. Are you ready? I’m ready. Okay, so the first question is, what do you find most nourishing about having your own business?

Brooke Shaden 2:37
Oh, that’s a good one. Good start. Well, I specifically like the word nourishing because I think that it’s a word that doesn’t get brought up very often in business specifically. And I think that it should be what business is all about. So when I’m running my day to day life and thinking about how I’m going to run my business, the best thing is to ask myself, What will nourish me and then only choose to do those things, which I recognize is quite a an honor to be able to do you know, because people don’t always have that choice right away. But for me, what nourishes me is having a sense of routine and a sense of home, even when I’m not home or even when I can’t go through my normal routine, just being very, very in tune with what makes you happy. What makes you feel most grounded and creative and inspired at any given time. To me, this is how I run my business. So whether I’m traveling, whether I’m doing something stressful, I always take time every single day to have a little moment of grounded inspiration, no matter what. And for me, that usually takes the form of daydreaming, which is a little bit weird and cuckoo but, but for a creative, I think it makes a lot of sense. And so I spend five minutes every single day having like a guided Daydream that I do with myself where I imagine that I’m a character and I’m going through this little story that I’ve created. And then by the end of the five minutes, I feel like I just had a little adventure and it was fun and it was inspiring. And then I feel like totally myself in the best way possible.

Alex Beadon 4:21
I love that so much. So I feel like I have so many questions to ask just off of what you just said. But where I want to start is Have you always been super intune with prioritizing, wanting to be in line with your passion and your purpose and wanting to and being aware of what it is that nourishes you and incorporating that into your life.

Brooke Shaden 4:45
I actually think that I started out extremely in tune with myself and then lost that somewhere along the way and then found my way back to it which I think is how most people start their businesses because you start out being like, oh, I want to do this thing so badly. And you know why you want to do it and you’re excited about it. And then whether it’s through a series of successes or failures, or both, you start to question what you’re doing or you start to move in a different direction, because it feels like you’ll be more successful that way. And then you burn out on that. And at some point, you have to return back to why you started in the first place. So I started my career super in tune with what made me happy what I wanted to be doing, to the point where people were offering me money. And I was just turning it down. Because I was like, I don’t want to be this type of photographer, I don’t want to be this type of artist. And it allowed me to cultivate a career that that started very, very quickly, because I was only focused on what made me happy. And then it’s somewhere along the line, I started to take other jobs, because it seemed like a good opportunity, even though those opportunities aren’t necessarily where your heart is. So I started taking those opportunities. And then, at some point burned out, which really, I think was just a couple of months ago, then. And then I found my way back to what is it underneath all of this success and failure combined, what makes me actually happy. It’s such

Alex Beadon 6:18
an interesting thing, the balance between doing what you love doing what nourishes you doing what feels right, what lights you up and getting paid for it. And then also having to pay the bills and having to sometimes sometimes deal with the harsh realities of being a business owner. So I’m curious, maybe for some context, you can tell us, what are your main sources of income? What are the main ways that you’re generating revenue in your business? And how do you find that balance? Between the intuitive side of you that’s like, yes, it’s really like to know, and the realistic side where it’s like, okay, I need to pay my bills.

Brooke Shaden 6:53
Yeah. So okay, so for for really good context. When I started my business, I started with a gallery show, I wanted to be a fine art photographer who exhibited in galleries and made my money that way, because I wanted to be a hermit. I was like, I don’t want to talk to people. I don’t want to have clients, I just want to stay in my house and make money that way. So I did, and I had my first gallery show. And that same day that my gallery opened, I quit my job. I had been working at Paramount Pictures, I was a legal assistant, and hated it. And I quit my job thinking I’m about to make so much money doing what I love. And of course I didn’t, I ended up losing $4,000. And then I didn’t have a job. And I just had to figure it out that year. So I started that way with wait.

Alex Beadon 7:43
So when you say last $4,000 it was that you invested $4,000 into the gallery hope answering right hoping everything would be super successful and that it was a flop. Exactly. Okay. Okay.

Brooke Shaden 7:54
I’m on your page. Yeah. So yeah, I should think of it that way. Now, when I do my taxes, I should be like, I made the $4,000 back. Party. So yeah, so I started my career with this bang of like, I’m gonna do what I want, and it’s gonna make me money. And then it’s somewhere along the line. That was not the reality of the situation. And I realized that I had a choice to make, I either had to take jobs, that would get me money, but were not in line with what I wanted to do. Or I had to just eat ramen soup and not have any money for a really long time. So I sort of made a little bit of a compromise. And I say, compromise, because at the time, it felt like I wasn’t doing what I set out to do, which was to be a fine art photographer. But looking back on it, what I actually did was allow myself to expand my interest, and then pursue different interests. So even though I wasn’t making money off of galleries, I was making money off of writing, I was making money off of teaching, and doing things that I also love doing that eventually led me back to a fine art career, but weren’t exactly what I thought I should be doing to be a stereotypical fine art photographer. And just

Alex Beadon 9:12
to be clear, when you say you were writing and you were teaching, you’re you’re talking about photography related things, though. Yeah, exactly. So it was still in the realm of your passion and what it is that you were doing, but it felt like a compromise.

Brooke Shaden 9:25
Exactly. And the compromise was okay, this is not me sitting at home, not talking to people and making money off of my prints, but it is in line with what I love. So why not explore those avenues until I can make money doing this one specific thing that I think I should be doing?

Alex Beadon 9:45
Yeah, that’s super interesting. So now, fast forward. Are you doing galleries? Are you doing what it is that you imagined for yourself to be doing? You’re still doing a lot of teaching. I know you’re doing motivational speaking, you’re selling books? Yeah. I feel like you’ve got so many things going on. Can you just break those down for us so that I have like this clear vision in my mind?

Brooke Shaden 10:11
Yeah. Let’s see how we do. So um, so yes, I like half of my business now is fine art selling through galleries. So I have, you know, anywhere from five to 10 shows a year, I sell through six different galleries that represent my work specifically. And that’s like half of my career. And if I knew if I needed to, I could live off of that. But I want a few more revenue streams just for security. So I have that side of things. And then the other half is I licensed my images for book covers and album art and things like that. I do commission shoots for people, sometimes, specifically, music artists, a lot of the time. I do teach and I speak, although I teach a lot less now as of this month. And yeah, I think I think that’s about it. I also write but not so much for money right now. So Right.

Alex Beadon 11:10
Yeah, that’s so I what I love about you the most is that so you’re a photographer, and I put photographer for those who are just listening and like air quotes, because I feel like you’re so much more than just photographer. You’ve really like created and crafted this business, this online presence, this brand for yourself in such a unique way. Like even when you look at just the photography itself, is so different. I mean, I think you were like one of the very first who was creating pieces like this, you explore topics that are so deep, and so different and unique. And you know, you look around at a lot of the portrait self portraits, I get taken in a lot of selfies nowadays, especially now with Instagram. And it’s just like, oh, how can I make myself look really pretty in front of this camera? And you’re like the total opposite of that. You’re like, How can I create my own world? Through the camera and Photoshop and all of your artistic skills? Yeah. And I just feel like so besides just the fact that you’re such a unique photographer, you’ve also created this career for yourself where you have you I mean, I was just going through your social media, sorry to put you on the spot, but 920,000 likes on Facebook, 193,000 followers on Instagram, like, you’ve really got a huge following of people who love your work who love what you’re all about. Was that on purpose?

Brooke Shaden 12:44
No, but but here’s the thing is that social media is so frustrating and exciting to me at the same time. Because I think that, like, let’s just say you get on Facebook, and you make a Facebook business page. Of course, your goal is to get followers, like, of course, that’s what you’re hoping for. And I started out the same way. And I remember I refuse to set up a page, I was like, no one’s gonna care about this, I’m not doing it. And my friend sat down, she was like, I’m gonna do it for you. So she did it all for me. And then she handed over the access to the page. Like, just set a goal, like just set a goal for yourself. And I was like, Okay, let’s try to get 50 people by the end of the month. And then she was like making 100. And I was like, You’re crazy. So that’s how I started. And I was like, You know what, I’m going to try to get 100 people. And by the end of the month I did and I felt really crappy about it. Like, I just felt like, what am I doing, like collecting people like their stamps or something? This is ridiculous. So I had this moment where I was like, I can’t do this, I cannot invest my time into collecting people like trophies. So I completely changed my attitude. And I just said, You know what, I’ve got this weird dark art that I want to put out there. And if anybody feels connected to that, then that’s who I want to gather into my circle. So I started to put out messages that were really heartfelt, really meaningful to me and just genuinely asking who else feels this way? And by garnering this sense of me to through people, people saying I feel that way, too, I feel that way too. Suddenly, I created this group of people who were really tuned in to that message that I wanted to send and who felt the same way. And that’s how I’ve been doing it ever since 2010. So So yeah, I started out really wanting to grow my page and now I don’t care at all. I remember

Alex Beadon 14:47
going to the promoting passion events back in 2015 2016 2015 it was done. And I remember just being blown away by how little you really cared about the strategy. And I mean, on the best way possible because you come from a place and this is why for me, like, I just love you so much more is like you aren’t really trying to, you know, I mean, I think you’re trying to make an impact, but you’re not sitting there being like, How can I be the most popular person? Or how can I make people follow me? Or like, where like, what strategy can I use? Like, you’re just very much like, I’m gonna show up, I’m gonna do my thing. And if you like it, you can follow me.

Brooke Shaden 15:31
Great. That’s right.

Alex Beadon 15:33
Like, that’s it. So I think the main takeaway for people listening is to do the work and be really aligned with your work and what connects with you and what matters to you. And the following will come like don’t obsess over how many likes you have, or

Brooke Shaden 15:50
I mean, here, this is really an interesting point, because people spend so much energy trying to get followers like attention to all that behind the scenes, which can be very important and valuable to do. I’m not saying that it’s not. But I think that what people miss most of all, is that there’s somebody out there who will love what you have to say, no matter if you’re saying the craziest thing in the world or not. There’s somebody out there who’s going to be in alignment with your mission and your goal. So if you recognize that instead of freaking out about how am I going to find these people? And how are we going to push this content to them. And you just started saying what’s in your heart, people are starved for that kind of interaction, people are desperate to feel connected to somebody. So if you put yourself out there, so genuinely, someone’s going to recognize that and it might not be 100,000 people, but it doesn’t have to be either.

Alex Beadon 16:50
I love that. And I think that word you use genuine is just so spot on. So my follow up question to that is how did you find the courage to put yourself out there in such a vulnerable way through your writing, even through your photography, like your photography is exploring some? You know, I mean, death rebirth, dark lights, like it’s some intense work. And I feel like at first, it must have been scary for you, or maybe intimidating for you to put yourself out there. Or maybe not. Maybe that’s just me projecting. But I’m curious, what was that like for you?

Brooke Shaden 17:25
Well, I actually think that it started in a in a slightly self deprecating kind of way, because I created about five images in a week. And it was the first time I’d ever used my camera. I didn’t know what I was doing. But I had these things that I wanted to say, and I photographed them, and I put them on Flickr. And that was how I started my career that first week, I put those images up. And what I said to myself was, no one’s gonna look at this, like, how would anybody even find it? I had never been in this online world. So it was so foreign to me that anyone could even find my page and comment and things like that. So when I put it out there, it was dark and like super creepy, what I was putting out. And people saw it. And I was my mind was blown. I was like, How Did anybody find this? First of all? And no, why are they talking to me about it? Like I just, I was just doing it for me. And I think that that was a really big blessing because I was doing it just because I wanted to and I put it online to have a place to contain it. And then suddenly, people were responding. And some people were saying, this is horrible. You should not be on the internet, you can not share this kind of thing. And other people were saying the opposite. They were saying thank you so much for doing this. And I didn’t expect either reaction, I didn’t think anyone would care. So when I realized somebody cares, that immediately cancelled out anyone who doesn’t you know who’s upset about it? Who doesn’t want me to do that? Because if you can change one life, visually through an image or through your words, or whatever your medium is, is that not worth doing, no matter what anyone says. And that’s how I started.

Alex Beadon 19:12
I love that you’ve used the internet as such a tool for self expression. I love that you you know, I think you’re very helpful artists first business person. Second, I think you’re also very aligned with what you want your lifestyle to look like, and building your business to support that lifestyle. So has that always been a very intentional thing where you’re like, Okay, this is what I want my lifestyle to look like you’re nodding yes. How did you go about getting clear on what you want your life like, do you ever have to stop and say, Okay, I don’t like doing this. I like doing this. I want more of this less of this and talk to us about that.

Brooke Shaden 19:55
Yeah, I mean, I I’m very fortunate to be a very decisive person. So I I always know what I want. Exactly. And I very easily formed pathways to get there, mostly out of being stubborn. I think like, I just don’t want to live a life that I don’t value, which I think if more people became, I guess selfish in that way, which I use that as a good word, because I think it’s really, really important to be selfish. If we can find our selfishness enough to just be honest about what we want and how we live our best life, then suddenly, all these avenues open up that you never thought of before. So I was I was working, as I mentioned, as a legal assistant. Before I started my career, and I hated going to work every day, I went to bed sick to my stomach, I woke up sick to my stomach. And I recognized that that is not a good way to live. Before that I was in film school. So I went out to Los Angeles, I was working at Paramount just to bide my time before I could make it big as a director whenever it was going to happen. And I also had this really honest talk with myself where I said, Okay, I hate corporate life, I don’t like working in an office. But I also just spent three and a half years in film school with a degree that I don’t want to use, because I don’t actually like making films. And I didn’t realize that. So I was at this dead end, I was like, I can’t wake up and do this for the rest of my life. And I don’t even want to pursue what I studied. So when you’re at that place where you’re just so unhappy. And then you see so clearly, oh, this creative thing that I’m doing makes me happy. It makes sense to start doing that thing. But unfortunately, people don’t because of the risk involved in doing that. So I had that risk in front of me, and it was a matter of I would rather be dead poor, then work a job that makes me money. And I made that decision. And it’s a decision that not everyone can make right away because of children or responsibilities, or all these different things. And I was so fortunate to be 21 years old and had nothing to my name, and it didn’t matter. But I think that that’s the choice that has to be made at the same time.

Alex Beadon 22:12
What do you think it is about society that has us almost brainwashed in a way to not even be aware of how we’re feeling? What, what do you wish more people knew?

Brooke Shaden 22:24
Yeah. I mean, I feel like I’ve witnessed most of my friends in the position that I was in, and they’re still in it all these years later, no matter how many times I yell at them to stop, you know, and that’s how a lot of people are. And you can’t blame anyone for feeling that way. Because I think that we’re taught that you’re not supposed to enjoy your life that much like we’re taught that you should go to work, and you should put in the hours and achieve greater success, for whatever reason, just for status, or money, or whatever it is. And we’re not taught that when you put risk into your life, you get much greater rewards. At least I certainly was not taught that in school, I was taught that you take a career that will be sustainable, you go to college, and then hopefully that career buoys you up. And I think that really the biggest takeaway from my life has been that there are so many ways of doing any one thing. There are just so many ways. And I remember starting out and thinking, how am I going to make a living as a photographer. And now the way that I look at that is, well, there are about a million ways to do just that. But I don’t even just want to be a photographer, you know that our interests and what what our passions are in what we love to do are so great and varied. Because, necessarily, there are so many great and varied things to do in this world, that if we just simply take a couple of them and take concrete steps forward, we’ll find that there’s this momentum pushing us on and we’re going to eventually get to a path that feels more comfortable.

Alex Beadon 24:09
Especially in this day and age with the Internet. I feel like it’s so and some people like Oh, that’s easy for you because you’re an extrovert and like, it’s easy for you to put yourself out there. And I’m like, No, dude, I know so many introverts who use the internet to build careers for themselves and make money online. And it’s just not an excuse anymore to be like, Oh, I don’t there’s no way for me to make money doing what I love like fig. It’s figure out all right, you can figure it out.

Brooke Shaden 24:36
Totally. I was I was actually just having a conversation with someone about you in particular, because they were saying like, how do I you know, build a career and I was like, just look at Alex and then she was like, she’s so extroverted. That was like fine. Look at me, because I am so scared to talk to people, but you don’t have to. The thing is that we get in our heads this idea that To do a certain job, you have to be a certain way, when in fact, the people who are most successful and who who build these bridges for other people are the people who are doing something in their unique own way that nobody else has done before. So you know, what, if you’re not extroverted, who cares, do it your way, and then see who follows across that bridge, because guaranteed people will follow.

Alex Beadon 25:26
Amen. And I just think it’s so important, like looking at you like, what you’ve done is you’ve taken your innate strengths, and your zone of genius and everything that makes you you, and you’ve turned it craftily into this career, right. So I just think that is available to everyone, even if photography is not your thing, even if you’re introverted or extroverted, or whatever the key isn’t what you’re doing. It’s taking what your God given skills are, and what your innate gifts are, and really turning into something that’s been created with it. That’s why creativity

Brooke Shaden 26:03
is so important. Yeah, you know, I was just having conversation with a friend about this. And I was, you know, she was saying, I don’t like my job, I don’t like my life. I don’t like where I live, I want to change it. And I said, so change it, what’s wrong? And she said, Well, there’s so many things that I could do, how should I invest time into just one of those things? And it’s like, okay, so instead of doing that, you’re just going to sit here for the next however many years not investing your time into anything worthwhile, because you’re afraid that it’ll be the wrong thing. And I think that that is a confidence issue. That is an issue of people saying, there’s so many things, I could invest my money, and I could invest my time, and how do I know which one to do. And it’s like, in the time that you’re thinking about these things over and over, you could be doing every single one of those things, even if it’s in a small way. And I’m always telling people, just do something every single day, do one little thing that will get you closer to that goal. And you’ll find that you’re there all of a sudden.

Alex Beadon 27:07
So I’m curious, what would you say is your superpower?

Brooke Shaden 27:15
Um, I think I’ve been thinking a lot about this, actually, when I haven’t been saying superpower, of course, but about what it is that has allowed me to build a career that I love, and to do the work that I do. And I think that a large part of it is my ability to analyze my life and what I love in life, what my passions are, what intrigues me to analyze that, and then spit it back out in a way that’s recognizable and easy to digest. And that builds community. And I’ve always done this, whether it’s reading books, and I love to find the symbolism in books, or whether it’s, you know, looking at an experience I just had and understanding the lesson of that experience very quickly. So being able to analyze myself in a lot of different ways. And then regurgitate that into art, I think has been my greatest superpower.

Alex Beadon 28:13
That’s so I love that this is something you’ve been thinking about. Oh, yeah. I feel like oh, that’s a good question. And you’re just so prepared. You’re like, Oh, I’m ready to answer this question. That’s awesome. I’m totally. Okay. So my next question for you is, you have all of these different ways, all of these different channels online, like lots of different ways to express yourself, you started doing video, you obviously have your photos. You’re now getting into writing, which is awesome. I want to hear what your perspective is on using social media in a way that doesn’t kind of just act as a distraction. Like, I feel like you do a really good job of not getting too caught up in it. I remember when I was up promoting passion, you were like, I can’t remember what Oh, you were like, how do I hashtag it? Like you didn’t know? about it? Yeah. Like, do you have hundreds of 1000s of followers? And you don’t know this one simple thing. So like, you obviously use it as a tool. You don’t let it distract you. And I’d love to hear you speak on

Brooke Shaden 29:21
that. Yeah. And it’s funny that you say that because lately I’ve been feeling like, I need to get off social media. It is distracting me. But I’m glad to hear that it doesn’t seem like it is no but it’s really not usually. I view social media as a vehicle to connect with people. And that’s it. And I know that that’s obviously that’s why Facebook was created, for example, but I think that I do so in a way that is in a very specific way that doesn’t engage with the type of content that I’m uninterested in. So one way that I do that is I don’t follow anyone or anything that isn’t in line with my passion. It’s so important. You know, like, people are following all these magazines and celebrities and nobody actually cares.

Alex Beadon 30:13
People are following people. And then five years later, still following that same person, like, I’m always calling my feet, I’m following unfollowing following unfollowing. Like, keep it fresh. Yeah, totally.

Brooke Shaden 30:25
It was funny the other day, one of my friends said to another friend, she said, Did you see this thing that she posted? I was like, No. And they’re like, why? I was like, I don’t follow her. And she’s like, but she’s your best friend. I was like, Yeah, but I don’t care that much. Like, I’d rather text that person, call that person then actually engage online with that person. So yeah, so it’s something that I feel very passionate about, I only follow about five people on Facebook that show up in my newsfeed, I love it. It’s great. You’re one of them. It’s like, it’s I think it’s just necessary. So I don’t engage in anything that isn’t in line with my passion. That’s the first thing. I always keep my conversations as positive and nurturing as possible with people. So if I’m online, it’s because I’m having a genuine conversation with somebody and not just to, you know, like, give a comment here, give a comment. They’re trying to get people to come to my page. So when I post something online, I make absolutely certain that I’m there for at least 30 minutes to engage with people and to have conversations. And after that I’m done. You know, like, I’ll get off, I’ll put my little timer on my web page to let me know that I’ve been on too long. And then, and then I’m off. And I think that it’s really great to do it that way. Because then you’re engaging meaningfully when it matters most. And you just check in the next day.

Alex Beadon 31:54
Hey, guys, quick interruption to our episode, I wanted to give you guys a really fun opportunity. And I’m giving this to the people who are really listening to the episode. If you’ve listened to this far, I’m super impressed. I’m giving you the opportunity to win a 20 minute phone call with me where you can ask me anything, pick my brain, I think you’re gonna love it. But in order to enter to win, here’s what you need to do. I want you to take a picture of you listening to the podcast, or maybe just a screenshot of the podcast itself, posted to your Instagram story, make sure to tag me at Alex feed in and somewhere there, I want you to include the yellow hearts emoji. Okay, that’s how I will know like, that’s the gonna be the clue that you’ve listened to this part of the podcast is that it has the yellow heart emoji, okay, so include the yellow heart emoji, tag me post about the podcast to your Instagram story. And bonus points if you tell me what it is that you’ve loved the most about this episode. And I will be picking one of you lucky people to win a 20 minute phone call with yours truly. Okay, that’s it. Now back to the episode. So my next question is, I really want to hear how you balance flow and intuition and more of the feminine energy with hustle and making things happen and getting things done. Talk to me about that.

Brooke Shaden 33:15
Yeah. Like for

Alex Beadon 33:17
you in your life,

Brooke Shaden 33:18
I feel really fortunate because I think that those two things are 5050 in my body. So I’ve got like this need for inspiration and flow as everyone does. But I also have this innate sense of hustle that excites me that I see as an art form unto itself. And I think that the more you can see hustle as an art, then the more flow works into the hustle. So if you’re if you have a dream, if you have something that you love, you know, go for it. And that’s great. But ask yourself, How can I go after that thing with the most intensity, but also with the most heart with the most soul in a way that makes me feel calm, relaxed and inspired. So that’s kind of how I marry those two things. You know, I’ve got a dream, for example, to write a novel, and I’ve been writing it for years and years. It’s way, way, way too long in the making. But I have this dream, and I decided next year is going to be my year I’m going to put this novel out there. Okay, that’s going to be it. So I’ve got this sense of urgency hustle of doing it now I’m going to get it done. But I also recognize that it’s not going to feel like me, it’s not going to be my most authentic offering, if I don’t do it with a sense of peace and a sense of self and a sense of calm. So every time that I work on it, I sit down, I clear my mind I write I strategize, but I do so from this place of when I put this out there this is going to be the most me thing that I could pop Simply do, and that really helps.

Alex Beadon 35:02
So you mentioned hustles, and art form, which really excited me. Yeah. Because I love that you look at it like that, I think something that I see many of my clients struggle with is they’re like, I know what I need to do. And I’m not taking any action, because I’m afraid or because I have never done it before. And I love how you, you spoke about hustle as an art form, then you also spoke about knowing that it’s going to feel kind of weird and knowing that it might not feel like yourself, but you’re doing the best you can, and you’re not married to it being perfect. And I think that’s so brilliant, because and it’s something that professional artists, I think are really, really good at, because they just realize that like, put it out there, like just give birth to it. And it doesn’t say anything about you, it doesn’t represent you like a part of yourself is in it. But it’s not the end all be all. So it’s like you’re very detached from the outcome of it, which I love. So can you talk to me a little bit about that?

Brooke Shaden 36:02
Yeah, I’ve never been a perfectionist at all in my life in any way, which I think is horrifying to my husband. But nonetheless, it just never has been something that’s affected me. So when I and you know what this has been probably a great lesson in photography, because I’m creating a lot of images and putting them out there. And, you know, I’ve created an average of about 100 images a year since I started. And that’s a lot of imagery. So you’re putting it out there and you realize, especially on the internet, how quickly it gets buried, how quickly nobody cares anymore. And when you start to realize that you care about yourself, way more than anyone else is going to that is so liberating, to just sit down and be like, nobody cares, great, I’m gonna do whatever I want and take it or leave it, this is how it’s going to be. Because in five years, you’re not going to be defined by that in one year and one month, probably you’re not going to be defined by that. So the earlier you recognize that the better because that’s the barrier that stops people from creating.

Alex Beadon 37:11
I love that so much. That’s so brilliant. Okay, next topic, self care, and really nourishing yourself, aside from what you’ve got going on business wise, and always finding that piece of that center. What has kept you going? Do you have any practices that you swear by? Talk to me about that.

Brooke Shaden 37:34
I love self care, it’s so good, especially as somebody who very much ignored that for a long time, it’s really good to feel centered in that practice. So I do yoga every day yoga is my happy moment. And even if it’s just 15 minutes on the mat, I think it’s really important to do. I’m a firm believer in hot drinks, which is ridiculous, but like, but I always have a mug next to me, and it just makes me feel really calm. So I love drinking tea. It’s just kind of silly. And I mentioned earlier that I do this daydreaming thing. And that’s really my big, everyday thing that if I just spend five minutes daydreaming, as silly as that sounds for an adult to say, I feel so myself, I just feel like, like my best, most creative self is going to come out that day if I do it. So I do those three things. And I also

Alex Beadon 38:35
sorry to interrupt you, with the daydreaming do you fit because I feel like it must be also kind of very, like holding hands with your work because your work is very, you know, deeply imaginative, you obviously have a very rich inner world. So probably doing that really helps you to express yourself and just know yourself better, and be able to

Brooke Shaden 38:58
like, Yes,

Alex Beadon 38:59
but my question is, how do you think that that would be just as important to someone who let’s say they’re a graphic designer, or they don’t consider themselves an artist, and maybe they are a coach of some sort? Or they’re a financial person or whatever. Like, how would you translate that? For someone like that?

Brooke Shaden 39:21
It is so hard because anybody who even anyone who’s listening right now, if you’re thinking, I’m not creative, this is really weird to me. I get it because I have plenty of friends who say that they’re not creative, but at the same time, I completely disagree with you. I think that everybody has creativity inside of them. And that might sound like hippie dippie and whatever. But it’s true. Everyone has this sense of creativity. And the problem is that we are taught not to exercise that or we don’t practice it. It is an exercise that you have to go through every single day to keep it up Then yes, I have a very active imagination, extraordinarily so. And I am so glad that I do. But even if you don’t, you have to think about daydreaming as letting your mind relax into its natural state into whatever it wants to be thinking about. So, while my daydreams might include me riding a dragon through a volcano or something, yours might not, you know, yours might be something seemingly mundane or ordinary, but it’s still so important to let your mind relax into its natural state to begin your day or to, you know, just have a have a more peaceful reality.

Alex Beadon 40:42
I love that. And I couldn’t agree with you more, I feel like creativity. I think the problem with many business owners is that they feel like creativity doesn’t have a space. Right? And I’m so glad there’s so I’m so grateful I was a photographer before because I’m, I know how important it is to be creative. Like, even when it comes to things that you wouldn’t think are creative, like coming up with what my price should be, alright, with, like, what often should be or whatever, like, my strategy, like I use my creativity, everything I do. And so I love that you say, you know, it’s really important to use it like a muscle and to use it.

Brooke Shaden 41:19
Yeah, it is. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve trained people before, who have come to me and said, I have no imagination, but I want to be a photographer, I want to do this thing. And just start there and watch somebody over the course of just a month Daydream every day. And then by the end of it be like, I am so creative. It happens all the time. You know, I run into people constantly who are like, I’m not creative, I’m not creative. But it’s never true. It has never been true of one person that I’ve met. So I know that it’s there to be cultivated.

Alex Beadon 41:53
Okay, so next question for you. If someone’s listening to this, well, my hair just flew into my

Brooke Shaden 41:59
nose good. I apparently got

Alex Beadon 42:02
overly excited. If so, there’s and there’s, they know what they want to do with their business. They know what they want to do with maybe artists, if they’re listening to this, because it is book shading, after all, but they feel like they just cannot figure out how to make money or like they just feel like they’re banging their head against the wall with figuring out how to become profitable. What would be your piece of

Brooke Shaden 42:24
advice for them? That’s a really hard one. Because there’s the logical side of me that’s like, I can’t tell you how to make your money. That’s too much pressure. You Alex would never think that because they’re like, No, I’m gonna tell you exactly how to make your money. But with the other side of me, this is, this is my truth, at least from day one. In my life, I grew up with not a ton of competence, I grew up thinking that nobody would care about what I had to say that I would never contribute anything that meaningful to society. And it was not a result of my upbringing or anything. It’s just a normal thing that I think a lot of people think about themselves, like, who am I to contribute something to the world. And at some point, I didn’t stop feeling that way. But I just started doing, I just started making things and putting it out there. And in doing that, I realized that my greatest and most unique form of expression is a business. It doesn’t matter if I’m a photographer, if I’m a writer, if I’m a speaker, what matters is that I am in any way that I can think of sharing my most intimate self. And that brings in revenue. And that might sound hippie again, like, oh, just do what you love. And that’ll bring in money. But I never thought that I could do what I loved and make money. I just I never thought that and yet it happened. And it happened in a really big way. Not like a ton of money, but in a lot of different small areas of success. I’ve been diversifying. I’ve been pushing myself, I’ve been sharing pieces of myself that I never thought I would let anyone see. And the more I do that the more success happens. And I think that that’s the key. People want to feel that connection. And people will pay for that connection as well. Not to put it in a to businessy of a way, but it’s true. I mean, if you want to be an artist, if you want to be someone who expresses yourself for a living, do that somebody is going to be there.

Alex Beadon 44:40
I love that. What is your sense of self worth come from? Do you feel like you’ve always felt this just innate sense of self worth? Do you think it’s something that you actively have to cultivate? Are there moments when you wake up in the morning even now 900,000 Facebook fans in and you’re like what am I doing? Who am I talk to you about self worth.

Brooke Shaden 45:01
Yeah. I have always felt that I’ve had worth in inserts. I haven’t always been confident about putting that out there. But I always felt that I was deserving of something, whatever, I don’t know what money or a certain lifestyle or something. And I know that a lot of people come at self worth, from a very opposite point of view where a lot of people don’t feel worthy of anything good. And I really sympathize with that way of, of seeing things. I think that if you have a unique perspective, if you are living your life in a way that is authentic, necessarily you have worth. And I’ve always put that mindset into how I operate. So if I’m creating something and putting it out there, that is authentically me, and I am sharing my message, I know that that message is worthy because I have felt it. So I feel something, then I know that somebody else out there needs to feel that same thing. And it’s all about connection. And it’s all about who can you touch and how can you better yourself. So this is kind of a roundabout answer about self worth. But I think that it’s a really multifaceted question. Just in terms of where does it come from? How do you cultivate it? How do you sustain it? I don’t know if I have all the answers to that. But I do know that everyone is worthy of it, because everyone has a voice. And that voice is worth a part

Alex Beadon 46:32
of it. Something else that I really love about you is how deeply you care about people, and how you use your platform not just to add to your own income levels, but also to help other people and you’re a philanthropist. Yeah, so I also feel like it’s just very deeply ingrained in who you are. Is that wanting to give back? Yeah, um, has that always been very easy for you? Is that something that you were just super intentional about from day one?

Brooke Shaden 47:07
It’s sort of I, I went into my career without thinking about other people at all. And I was very forceful about that, like, I went into it, like, this is my art, I’m gonna do what I want. I don’t care what you think. And I was really proud, because I felt like to be a strong person. That’s how you had to act. Until I realized that that’s not at all how I felt. And I actually really wanted to positively impact people. And I cared about what people thought, not that I was going to be brought down by negativity, but just that I really do want to help people on. And that is important. So I started to realize that that was something that I cared about more and more. And beyond just releasing images and hoping people liked them and stuff like that, I realized that there, there didn’t seem to be a voice of positivity in the art world that I easily found that I went online I went searching for, you know, like, who’s really doing good with their art. And of course, there are tons and tons of people. But at the time, I was thinking this feels missing, like something is not right here. There’s a lot of hustle. There’s a lot of putting images out there, and not a lot of heart. And I decided that I wanted to be somebody who could have that heart and that soul and really put that into what I was doing. And I realized that I don’t care about making money, about my career about anything as much as I care about even just one single individual person. So I started to change the way that I worked. And I changed the way that I structured my business so that I could travel to help people so that I could touch more people so that I could start a convention to bring people together and things like that. And that was the best change of my career.

Alex Beadon 48:58
What was most surprising to you, once you made that change?

Brooke Shaden 49:04
I think the most surprising thing was the hunger for it the way that almost other people were waiting for permission to do the same thing. I think that on the internet, especially any emotion that’s put out there is going to be exacerbated and pounded on like, if somebody puts out hate lots more people are going to start putting their hatred in that person’s vein. And at the same time, if you put out kindness, a whole bunch of other people are going to start sharing their kindness with you. So I think the most surprising thing was just you don’t have to act any certain way to have a successful business. You don’t have to be tough and you know, be all about selling and be all about this or that. You can simply put your work out there and do it in the kindest, most genuine way possible and people will echo that back to you

Alex Beadon 50:02
Speaking about hate, do you experience a lot of hate online?

Brooke Shaden 50:06
Not so much anymore. I mean, it started out as people telling me a lot, like, you know, your images are horrible, and don’t put them out there. And it’s offensive and no do that. And it took me, you know, a couple of years to really stop caring about that. And I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t care at all. If somebody doesn’t like what I do, I’m just like, oh, well, that’s entertaining. You know, like, at least someone thinks something feels something that’s good. But I think that what, what hurts the most, and this is probably the biggest flaw I see in myself currently, is that I care so much about being loved. And I say that in a really authentic way, like, a really raw way. Because it’s something that I’ve been struggling with lately is not the amount of people that are following me or anything, but the people who do look, I want them to see me for who I think I am. And when somebody doesn’t, when somebody writes to me, and they’re like, I know you’re really a horrible person, or you know, something like that, it gets me because I don’t want to be misunderstood just like every other person on the planet. So, yeah, so that’s been that’s been interesting, I don’t receive that much hate, really, I think, over the years, putting more and more kindness out there really has done its job. And I get pretty much only kind of lovely interactions. But sometimes it happens.

Alex Beadon 51:41
That makes me happy that you don’t get that much that it does happen. Like if you put yourself out online, it’s gonna happen. It’s kind of unavoidable. For sure. So that’s good. Um, so I want to ask you, one main business question. Do you have an email list? Yes. And how important has your email list been for you to cultivate your relationship with your people? Or do you think that it really hasn’t been that important?

Brooke Shaden 52:13
Okay, let’s be honest.

Alex Beadon 52:15
Let’s be honest,

Brooke Shaden 52:16
it has not been important at all. I need to take the Alex Beadon. Course. 101, about mailing lists. That’s the honest to goodness truth. I don’t know what your life yeah, it’s not been great. And I think that part of that for me is because it feels less personal than posting on the internet. Because I feel like when I post online, it’s like me with my account number responding to people with an email list, it goes out, it’s in their inboxes. And then if somebody responds to my email, then it’s just a one on one interaction. And I want people to be able to benefit from my responding to people’s questions online. So I haven’t done it properly. You know, to have one

Alex Beadon 53:04
you should just send out like, if you write something on Facebook, or wherever your blog was, whatever, just send people there and just say, Listen, I’m not going to respond if you message me directly to my inbox, but please respond to my blog, or please respond to my like, just asked her. Okay, I’m gonna take that as a challenge. I’m challenging you.

Brooke Shaden 53:25
I know, you remember, when we first met, and you were like, Brooke, there’s so many things that you need to be doing.

Alex Beadon 53:33
That I haven’t learned. But that’s what I love so much about us that you’ve just like, you haven’t let your lack of knowledge of certain things hold you back from doing what you wanted. Like you’ve just done it your way. And in a way, that’s beautiful, because like, you’ve made it happen regardless, you know, you’re such a great example of just making it happen. If you’re not feeling for email lists that don’t do it. If you’re not feeling for Facebook, then don’t do it. So I love that you’ve made it happen. I think that’s brilliant. Okay, cool. So I have a series of questions to wrap up this interview. What is one thing you do that has been a non negotiable and keeping your business on track?

Brooke Shaden 54:14
Oh, I like that question. Oh, there’s so many ways that I can answer this.

So I think that one thing that I’ve done consistently is I have been very, I don’t know what the right word is, I guess, dedicated to wanting to sell my work through galleries. So one thing that I do every single month is I write to new galleries and I keep up my contacts and relationships. And I think that that’s something that a lot of people don’t assume that other people are doing, you know, like, you feel like you’re hustling but you’re like, oh, that person must just be so lucky. And and that’s definitely not true for me. So, so one thing that has kept My business afloat that I think is so valuable is just doing the work like putting myself out there reaching out to the people that I want to be working with and working for. That’s been one of the biggest things, I think, for me. And then also just at the start of every month, I reevaluate my goals in life, like not just what do I want to do this next month, but like, are the things that I have planned to do in line with the life that I want to be living? And I think that those two things are just massively important.

Alex Beadon 55:32
I love that so much. I want to ask you one, just one like baby question after that, how much time do you spend every month or every week? Or however often you do it really evaluating? Where am I at? How am I feeling?

Brooke Shaden 55:49
Not that much time, really. I mean, I think once you’ve already done the work, and you know the answers at your core value level, then you’ve already done the work. So at the start of every month, I just spend about 10 minutes, like writing on a little notebook page. This is what I have coming up. Yes, this is in line with what I want to do, or no, it’s not. And I’ve been making a lot of changes recently, based on that. I mean, I decided next year, I didn’t want to travel as much, because that was not in line with the lifestyle that I want to live. And I decided that I wanted to teach less. So I in the last three months have turned down 25 jobs next year, just right, like it feels so good. enough not to say the job’s just like rolling in, this is just a really busy time to get invited for things next year. But it’s it’s been such an incredible change to just say, You know what, these are my values. This is what I need to do to make those values come to life. And it’s scary, you know, to not have that job security of 25 jobs next year. You know, like, where’s the money gonna come from? How am I going to make it work? But when we start letting those thoughts and those questions of how am I going to make money interfere with the decisions that we’re making? That’s when we suddenly ended up in a life that we didn’t intend to live? Hmm, amen. Okay,

Alex Beadon 57:13
share one mindsets that every entrepreneur needs to succeed,

Brooke Shaden 57:18
that your story is worth sharing that you who you are at your core, that is what needs to be put out there. I don’t care what your business is what you’re selling, what you’re advertising. As long as it goes back to you and who you are and your message. You’re golden. So good.

Alex Beadon 57:36
Okay, fill in the blank, the world would be a better place if more people

Brooke Shaden 57:41
knew blank. Oh, if more people knew they’re worse, definitely. I mean, it. I think that if more people understood just how much of an impact they can have on other people. I mean, imagine how many amazing people and ways of living and ways of affecting people be mobilized. If people knew how much impact they could have, it’d be amazing. I love that.

Alex Beadon 58:15
The book that changed my life was,

Brooke Shaden 58:18
Oh, you’ve gone down a deep hole. Okay. Um, this is probably a really weird one, especially to tell you but so my favorite book is Dune by Frank Herbert. And it’s a wildly popular science fiction series from the 60s. And there’s this quote in it that says fear is the mind killer. And I have it tattooed on my arm. It’s my favorite thing in the world. And I grew up with so many fear issues, and I still have them, like, totally ridiculous, like, I’m afraid of zombies. Why do I spend my time thinking about that? Who knows? But I have all these silly, stupid fears. And I remember reading that book, and it’s about a lot of different things, politics and whatnot. But I remember reading it and they just constantly repeat this phrase, fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total Obliteration and all these things that that really resonated with me, like fear is at the core of humanity in a really bad way. And it’s at the core of me, and it’s how so many people connect. So if I can eliminate the fear as being the driving force in my life and the way that I feel connected to people, then what do I replace that with? And for me, the answer was passion and meaning and standing up for what you believe in and that was the best lesson ever.

Alex Beadon 59:53
That’s so refreshing. Okay, and lastly, I want you to challenge Change everyone who’s listening to leave this podcast and do one thing. What is that one thing that you want to challenge everyone to do?

Brooke Shaden 1:00:10
I want to challenge you to make something, just make something like ask yourself, Who am I at my deepest core, and then represent that somehow make something from that. I think the moment we take that first step to actually creating something in our lives, that’s when things start to take off. So ask yourself who am I at my core and it makes something

Alex Beadon 1:00:40
thank you so much for tuning into the on purpose podcast, and I really hope that you had as much of a blast as we did. If you liked what you heard and want even more, make sure you leave a review because it really helps support what I do here on the podcast. All you have to do is search the podcast app for the on purpose podcast, select it, then scroll down until you see write a review and then type away. I hope you really enjoy your week and I will see you guys again next time stay on purpose.


#002 – Shannon Boodram on Growing Her YouTube Channel, Being A Sexologist and more …

Let’s face it. You know it, I know it: sex sells. But improving people’s sex lives is ten times more fulfilling—at least that’s what we know about our next guest.

Let’s get close with Shannon Boodram, a “Martha Stewart for Intimacy” whose YouTube videos have earned her millions of views, and a loyal following well over 350k on YouTube.

But it didn’t just happen overnight…

“Momentum is not doing one thing great and then everything is good…for most people momentum is like—you have to get really close to see it. It’s happening at a microscopic level. It’s slow but it is happening.”

Learn what makes her tick, finding true love within yourself and your business, and the nitty gritty truth behind getting your life on purpose.

In this Podcast you’ll learn:

  • How Shannon gained 100,000 YouTube subscribers in six months
  • How she dealt with the shame of having low numbers when she first started on YouTube
  • How Shannon discovered her life’s true passion of intimacy
  • How she overcame the industry shaming her for being a sexologist
  • Why she shies away from the word entrepreneur
  • What self care means to Shannon
  • And lots more
Binge on dat Boody!

IG: @Shanboody
YouTube: Shan Boody
Facebook: Shan Boody
Twitter: @ShanBoody

Loved this and want more? Check out our other episodes here.

Spark a conversation! Leave a comment below or say hello @alexbeadon on Instagram.

Transcript Available Below

Alex Beadon 0:02
Do you ever feel like you’re trying to balance it all, nourishing your health while growing your business and living a life well lived. And no matter how hard you try, sometimes you slip from purpose driven into autopilot. Take a deep breath, relax, and let’s get you back to where you belong on purpose

Welcome to on purpose, the podcast that helps you align your life energy with business strategy. This is your co host, Alex Beadon. Here checking in, are you ready to live your life on purpose. Today we’re going to be speaking to one of my favorite YouTubers of all time, the one the only Shannon booty. In this podcast, you will learn how Shannon gained 100,000 YouTube subscribers in six months, we’re going to talk about how she dealt with the shame of having low numbers. When she first got started on YouTube. We’ll talk about how she discovered her life’s true passion of intimacy and so much more. Now listen, before we dive into this amazing interview, I just want to let you know friendly reminder that when you’re done listening, please don’t forget to leave a review. We have a mission to reach 100 podcast reviews within our first week of launching the on purpose podcast. And that can only happen with your support. So if you really enjoy the podcast, please return the favor search for the on purpose podcast in your podcast app, scroll down and click write a review. It would seriously mean the world to me for now. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Hi, Shannon, welcome to my show.

Shannon Boodram 2:00
Hi, Alex. Thank you for having me. It’s been a long time coming.

Alex Beadon 2:03
Oh, I know. I’m so excited to have you here. And I was trying to think today back to when it was that I first found you and I can’t for the life of me remember where it was. But I know I’ve been following you for years. I absolutely love your YouTube channel. You’re up to such epic things in the world. So I just want to say thanks so much for coming on the show.

Shannon Boodram 2:24
Thank you for having me. And thank you for all of your support. You’re one of the people whose name I saw it. I’m like, Oh my gosh, she’s stunning. Who is this? And I just always, you’ve always stood out to me. So I have never not noticed you. So whenever you came on board is probably the next day. I was like Alex is my homie.

Alex Beadon 2:40
Awesome. So let’s get this interview started. So my first question for you is, what do you find most nourishing about your career?

Shannon Boodram 2:48
how different it is how challenging it is constantly, like I’m working on the show right now for Facebook called makeup or breakup. And I only honestly love about that show is how hard it is every single week and how there’s different things are thrown at us and all these new components. And it’s a bizarre thing because I used to really hate being nervous. And I’m like, because I grew up running track and field and I was constantly nervous for every meet. And now I still have those nerves. But I almost love it. Because it’s a reminder to myself that I’m doing something outside of my comfort zone that I’m always growing and stretching and expanding my database of skill sets. So I love that my job is hard and hard is relative though I’m not in a coal mine. I am not saving lives, but just challenging mentally. Yeah,

Alex Beadon 3:31
I think that’s something that I’ve always loved about you. And something that has always drawn me to you is the fact that you always seem to want to be the best version of yourself, you’re really into challenging yourself and doing things that are going to make you a better person and that are what you do. And also you’re someone who I’ve always looked at and it feels as though your purpose has always been very aligned with your career. So I would love to hear you talk a little bit about that about your purpose and doing choosing to do things in your career that gets you closer to that.

Shannon Boodram 4:10
Yeah, and I think this is a story that my boyfriend hates to hear me tell because i You always share the story but just like it’s one of those things that I honestly believe that I knew I was meant to do intimacy and relationships and sexuality from like the age of five. I remember that my Barbies were constantly banned from being naked. I remember my first consensual sexual experience at like four or five years old and it wasn’t touching each other. It was just like, showing physical acts of like desire towards our pillows, and she went told her parents either in trouble my Barbies are banned from being naked and like a lot of my life I went to a Catholic school, like my natural curiosity for sexuality and intimacy was suppressed. So a good friend of mine, Melanie Fiona said that we often feel like we have to move forward in life that we’re moving towards our passion moving towards Finding our desire, and she’s like, I think it’s actually healthy to think about it like you’re looking back, you’re trying to find that original thing that you were drawn to that maybe you were scared away from, or maybe through a counselor, or parents, somebody told you, you know, you shouldn’t be doing that. And for me, it’s always been intimacy, I’ve always had a desire for that. So I look at my passion as not finding it, but really just going back and getting it.

Alex Beadon 5:23
Yeah. And what’s also really interesting about your story is that the passion that you’ve always had, since you’re a little girl, is something that is quite taboo and something that a lot of people frown upon, and is not to be spoken about, especially as a woman. And so I’d love to hear you talk about the struggles that you had in really stepping into this as a career for you. Because I can only imagine that must have been incredibly difficult. And even so because of the fact that it’s a taboo topic.

Shannon Boodram 5:58
Exactly, I think you’ve hit all the right nails on the head for that. And I’m very patient with people in regards to where they’re at with their comfort level with sexuality, because I feel like I’ve experienced all of them myself. So I’m never like, come on three more liberated because I looked back at, you know, 25 year old Shannon, whose book just came out, but had this still shame. You know, I had this book out in stores, I remember trying to convince them like, Please don’t call it laid, let’s call it something else. Let’s call it something softer, like, just because I was ashamed to have this book that was so obviously about sex. And it definitely took a long time, the very first time I told my parents about what I was doing. Mind you, I did it in like a sneaky way I was writing my book laid. And I really needed to collect stories, because laid was all about like, let’s all educate each one, teach one. But let’s do it in an interesting way by sharing our experiences so others can learn vicariously. And so I had to tell my story in order to collect other stories. So I put the story online, of how I lost my virginity. And it wasn’t, you know, a cautionary tale tale story. It was just, it was like exactly how I would tell a best friend, now my internet experience and end up being great. But I described the sex I describe the feelings that I have this person I described the second time that we had sex the next day. And so I sent this story and this website to my parents and said, This is what I’m doing while they were on vacation. And my mom came back like four days later, still equally as angry, I’m sure as when she first read it, and her reaction was like, boys are going to be laughing and masturbating at you, they’re going to be in groups, just reading your story and laughing and masturbating. I was like, you’ve obviously never hung out with dudes before one. But number two, like that was like the base fear that everybody would just abuse me and think down upon me and look at me as a porn star. And, you know, I carried bits of those. And obviously, that place of fear was at a place of protection. She just didn’t want to see me exact like marginalized or abused in that way. And it definitely did take me a while. And so once my at 19, I was really proud. And then around 20 to 23, when I was talking about it in college, because I went to school for journalism, I felt the shame from them when they told me that like, maybe you should change the topic that you’re writing about. Or there’s oftentimes they would say, Hey, you can’t promote your website, which was the one looking for stories. And then my book finally came out again, I was like trying to change the title to make it softer. And then after late and I finished promoting that I went to University of Toronto got my sex education counselor certification, I was working in the offices there. And about a year after that when the book died down there with all the hype died down, I was kind of like, maybe I just want to be a feminist writer, maybe I want to be a musical writer, I don’t know if I want to be a sex education writer. And so I shied away from that place for some time. And I joined this website called those girls are wild. And it was just doing general female empowerment. And it was a good time in my life. But it was, you know, kind of a last vague time. And it wasn’t until I moved to California within 2014 that I really, really embraced the role, went back to school and said, No, this is what I do for a living. No, this is what I talk about. And even in those past four years of doing that, and reclaiming this space, there’s definitely been some hiccups for me where I have felt that creep up of shame. So it’s a constant battle inside of myself. So I can only imagine people who don’t devote themselves to this topic area, how it must be a struggle for them.

Alex Beadon 9:20
And even I remember and I can’t remember the details. I remember I watched one of your videos, and you were saying how an opportunity came up. And then basically, they gave you the job found out about your YouTube channel online, and then pretty much took it back and they were like, well, you know, we can have someone who’s talking about these things representing us. How do you deal with that? Like, how do you find it inside of you to be like, I know that this is what I’m here to do and that and that this work is good and also like, because there must be a lot of self doubt and like second guessing yourself like Well, are they right? You know what I mean?

Shannon Boodram 9:58
Absolutely. And at that time I’m the because it was like they were offering $10,000. And at the time, that would have been the world to me like that would have made a massive difference between struggling to put together rent struggling to survive, and like being okay for a few months. And so it wasn’t like a job that I was like, oh, whatever I just missed out on it, it really, really did crush me. And I’m so proud of myself, like looking back with all these little moments. I’m like, I wish I could just hug you and say thank you. And I wish when I was two, three days ago, we me and my partner were walking on Sunset Boulevard. And when I first moved to LA, I moved with nothing, no job, nowhere to live. And like no idea how I was going to make it in this town. And we stayed at this place called like, the Comfort Inn, or the it was called the American inn or something. It was some motel. And I was walking every day to this restaurant called Tender Greens. And I was walking down the street a few days ago. And I’m like, I wish I could pass my past self and like, Just tell her on the way like, you’ll be fine. I wish I could just like give her a quick hug or like whisper in her ear. Like, don’t feel afraid right now, I know you’re afraid. And this is a hard thing to do. But like you’re going to it’s going to work out okay for you. But I’m just I don’t know, I’m an awesome times. And I was able to push through and even now like I I’m really good. I’m a very good stage host. I’m very good at presenting, I went to school for journalism. So I understand storytelling, I really could do PR, there’s a lot of great bass tools I think I have which makes me really good at my job as a sexual speaker and amplifier for a message. And I hosted this event last week called we gather and it was like a feminist event. And it wasn’t about sexuality. And then afterwards, producer came up to me and said, No, you really could do other stuff, you really could do other hosting. And I was like, Man, I know, I don’t want to do this. I don’t mind doing these as one offs. But I don’t want to skew my career towards being a general when I have a niche that I’m really passionate about. And now I can say that because I’m doing fine in this industry. But I think that that that took a while just to really be like, No, it’s okay, I’ll lose other jobs. I’ll say no to other things. I know where my lane is. And I’m really, really happy swimming there.

Alex Beadon 12:08
So what would you say your mission is? Or your purposes? Like, what is it that you’re trying to achieve in this lifetime, with all of the things that you’re doing and creating?

Shannon Boodram 12:18
I mean, I see it all the time in my comments. It’s just people who say things like you changed my sex life or my perspective on relationships, or because of you like I’ve gotten out of bad relationships and where I was two years ago in terms of intimacy is nowhere compared to where I am now. And even people who are like this one person tweeted, didn’t follow me. But there’s one person tweeted, I think the relationship expert sex expert role is bullshit. And the girl tweeted back to her, Do you know who Shan booty is like, you should watch this stuff. It’s not bullshit. Like, you won’t be able to help but look at your life and your romantic life in a scientific way after watching her videos, and that’s what I really want. I want for people to be like, Okay, hang on, how do I actually get good at intimacy? Because I don’t think that we often are, have the thought process that we have to get good. Most people think we just fall into it. And I actually had an experience the other day where this I went out for dinner with this girl and she was telling me her love life woes and the drama she was going through. And she was like, I don’t know why. But I fell in love with my friends would benefits. And I was like, I do know why it’s there’s a biological link that happens when people have sex together. If you’re not aware of that. It’s kind of like being like, I fell in love with pizza. And I’m not sure why. Like, there’s clear reasons why we are attracted to certain things that we interact with on a consistent basis. If you fall in love with cigarettes, you wouldn’t be like, I have no idea why I’m addicted, we have an understanding of the chemical bond that’s happening. But when it comes to love and romance, we have no clue. And so I was trying to explain to her and she was like, Oh, well, you know, I don’t like like to learn about that stuff. I just prefer to experience it. I’m like, Okay, we’ll be miserable. Like, it’s just somebody who just like, No, I don’t really want to learn. And so the people who do and who are nerds about it and want it to be a really, really powerful and controlled part of their life. Like just I think the same way with diet, there’s some people who don’t want to learn and just wanting to be like, whatever, I just eat what I want, which may work for you. But I think it’s much more empowering and magical to me to come from a position of knowledge, and to come from a position of self awareness. And so that’s what I really want for people is to have that same confidence that I know what’s going on. And I know how to make the right decisions for myself.

Alex Beadon 14:26
Yeah. So for me looking at your YouTube channel, it’s just so interesting to hear you say like, you know, what, you what is your purpose because from my perspective, I look at it and I’m like, here’s this woman who is so intelligent and so well spoken, and you speak about this subject sex and relationships and love and all that jazz, in a way that like when I tell people about your channel, they kind of give me this weird look like why would I want to look at that because they think it’s gonna be this trashy, like, you know what I mean? Like this just negative space that It is trashy because I think that’s what people’s idea of anything related to sex would be. And I’m like, no, she does it in such an educational way. And in such, just such an empowering way. And I feel like it’s so interesting to me because this is a subject that I feel like, needs a voice hasn’t been able to have a voice throughout the history of time. And now with the internet, people like you are able to come out and be like, Okay, I love this. I want to talk about it. I want to shine a light on it. And I think it’s just so empowering to see someone be like, it doesn’t have to be trashy doesn’t have to be the shameful thing. Like everyone does it everyone experiences it. So I just think it’s so beautiful, what you do.

Shannon Boodram 15:42
Thank you so much. It’s so loving. And it’s one of those things that I love. Because at this point, I have over 200 videos. So whenever someone says to me, I watched one of your videos, I just hold my breath to see like which one because there’s there are trashing ones that I’m really proud of, actually, and there are silly ones and there are hair ones like and so now this one, like whatever video you are drawn to, I mean to me says more about you and your interest and does about me. So my mom, for example, said that a doctor, she told one of her doctor friends that like oh, my daughter does this thing talks about sex and it’s obviously her channel. And the next day he approached you like, Oh, I saw one of her videos. Gemma, which one do you watch? It’s something about sexual private dancing. And, you know, he’s a good passing judgment. But as a mom, I don’t feel a way like there was 200 videos. This video he clicked on. Like of all the titles that he saw, that is the one that man was like, I’m gonna watch this one. So that says more about you than me. If that’s what you were drawn to then like so be it. That’s what I put it out there for my sexuality and I think it’s like a proud part of it. And if you watch the makeup video, great if you watch the pre come one on one video, or what does birth control do in the body? Or if you watch like, what is your love language, it doesn’t matter to me at this point, all the information is there, whatever your entry point is, I’m just glad people showed up.

Alex Beadon 16:56
It’s interesting to hear you say I have trashy videos, and I’m proud of them. Because to me, I look at all of those videos. And I’m like, I still think they’re all incredibly tastefully done. You know, like, I don’t look at any of them and think like, oh, like that’s, I don’t know. So it’s just, it’s interesting to hear you say that. And you’re right, like people are gonna watch it and take whatever it is that they take from it. But I just love that, like you own it. And it’s out there and you love it. And it’s just, it’s awesome. So I love it. Thank you. My next question for you is so I look at you as someone who’s really just gone all in, in building your personal brand, and then really figuring out how to create revenue streams from there, like how are you going to make money? But you’re always building your personal brand. I think that’s really like the core of what it is that you do. So I’m curious, would you describe yourself as an entrepreneur? Or would you say that you have your own business? Or how would you describe what it is that you do?

Shannon Boodram 17:55
I don’t know. I mean, like to describe myself as like Martha Stewart for intimacy, because I think there’s a lot of media personalities like who do what I do, like there’s Joe Rogan. And there’s Rachel Roy, who attach themselves to a lifestyle to a brand to an idea. And then they spread out on many different mediums and platforms to create a living for themselves. So Martha Stewart, for example, when you think of DIY and home decor, or maybe cooking, you think of her name and the top five. And when you do think of Martha Stewart, there’s many ways to interact with her, whether that’s buying her sheets at Kmart or it’s going through a website or purchasing her book or watching her showing VH one you’re seeing her on Comedy Central like but all that she does kind of relates back she never even when she was on Comedy Central the roast, she plugged her sheets. So I think that that type of monoculture that’s diversified in many different mediums is how I envision my career going. Is that person entrepreneur? Yeah, of course. I mean this. I answered that question as I was saying it. So yes, I do. I guess because I’m not really selling an item right now. And that’s one of the things I think I have to definitely work on. Because there’s some people who do it like Matthew Hussey, who’s a dating expert, there’s a formula that you should take if you’re going to be a digital personality, which is like, you sell seminars or you sell ebooks, and then you do this thing where you collect emails, and you give out a free gift. And then you mail them every two days. Like there’s a system in place to do it that like I don’t feel that I do particularly amazing. So I guess I shy away from the term entrepreneur because I’m not a well oiled business. But I work so yeah, I work a lot.

Alex Beadon 19:34
So it’s interesting to me to hear you say all of that, because I’ve always kind of wondered because I’m in that space like why you never ventured into that space. And then But then I see what you’re doing and you seem to be doing just fine like in your own way because I see you’re doing like sponsorships brand collaborations like you have your YouTube channel. I know you’re selling your necklace you’ve got sometimes I see you’re offering one on one coaching. You did the full screen series. Now you’ve got the Facebook show make up or break up. So like I see you doing lots of different things. And I’m curious about like, is there a strategy behind what you do? Do you ever Are you like sitting down and being like, okay, like, I need to find this project this project, like, how do you go about finding these opportunities for yourself? And what is the process for you behind being like, Okay, I need to make some money right now, what am I going to do to make it happen? Because really, and correct me if I’m wrong, it is in your hands. Right?

Shannon Boodram 20:27
Yeah, I mean, a wish. And that’s, you know, these are honestly great questions that I wish that there was like a long term strategy, I honestly feel vary day to day. And that can be problematic, because when things have momentum, I did a video once about kicking the ball and like momentum. And so if I’m in videos, yeah, and I’ve come into learning, there’s a lot in life that points back to us in there’s a lot in life that points back to us. And so it’s a catch 22. Because I do do things like YouTube, which is constantly putting out work and putting out energy into the world. Even social media is putting out energy into the world. I do my consistent one on one counseling services every single week. So I do have some consistent stuff that I work on. But no, I mean, am I creating an email database on YouTube going about from that perspective, and ensuring that even if I get no more jobs, no more opportunities, I’ve still collected, you know, 5000, like mines, that that, for me is always my base. I think that that’s a lesson I’d probably give to somebody when someone ever talks to me about wanting to build a brand or something similar to mine. I’m like, start with the business first, and then add the creative on top. Because I’m somebody who started with creative first and then was like, oh, yeah, I kind of have to make money off this. What’s that business thing. And it’s easy now. Because brand deals come to me and I’m an one of the known names in the space. And so if you’re a company who’s selling organic tampons, you’re gonna be like, Okay, let’s sell to these five, help these five influencers out or ask them to help us. But when I’m no longer in that space, or there’s new names that come up, and I’m going to have to find a way to reinvent. So that I think is the advice I would give to any person who’s in that sort of left right brain. That’s where we exist. We’re creatives, but we’re also business people start with the business first and add the creative on top. And even if you’re only having a business that’s structured around 10 People who are your audience, I mean, if that grows, you’re always going to have that base versus for me, it’s this massive catch up game. But it’s going well now, but this is a story of everybody, right? They’re doing really, really well. When they’re hot, they’re hot, and then when it’s over, they have nothing to fall back on. So I’m trying to work backwards, but that doesn’t happen to me. Right?

Alex Beadon 22:32
That’s super interesting. So do you have a team that you work with?

Shannon Boodram 22:36
It’s like I get asked, asked about bah, bah, bah. I actually like asked this question like two days ago, and I was kind of like reluctant. I do and I don’t, I have a very big management umbrella. Like there’s a lot of people in the sham booty. Percentage cut. I mean, I have a manager. I have an agency. I have a lawyer. I have a PR person. But Is anyone doing the day to day work? No.

Alex Beadon 23:03
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Shannon Boodram 23:50
Is anybody helping out with Creatives or writing stuff for me? Or working on treatments with me? Or really even for PR? Are they doing like my daily pitches or coming up with different stuff? No. They’re there for like to secure opportunities or to find things that are to catch things, I guess that it would be out of my scope. But the daily work? No, I It’s all me. That’s really

Alex Beadon 24:11
cool. Okay, so we’re gonna move into talking about YouTube now because I’m really curious to just pick your brain on what it’s like being a YouTuber. As of right now, I just checked you have 294,000 YouTube subscribers. So you’re like creeping up to that 300,000 mark, which is definitely a huge accomplishment, some accomplishment and something to be very, very proud of. But you started making YouTube videos four years ago, I think or at least that’s when your first video that I could possibly find was but I know that you had you were kind of playing around with it before your current channel. So tell us a little bit about your YouTube journey.

Shannon Boodram 24:47
Yes. And so in 2009, my book lead came out and I had no way to promote that I had no audience. I just I didn’t know how you’re supposed to launch at a publishing company. And I was under the impression that they would do it all but I think the more that you grow into these spaces, you realize, like nobody can do a lot of these jobs in terms of promoting yourself better than you. And so I started a website with a friend of mine who was on Degrassi who had a big following, which was a massive help for me, because she already had a name. And so it allowed me to create a space that was familiar to people. And I pushed my book through that we parted ways in 2011. And in 2012, I started my new my new YouTube channel, but I didn’t post on it at all. And it was kind of like a place of like feeling, because I suppose in the early wave of YouTube, where people weren’t really making a career out of it, and I’m like, What’s the point of me doing this, I might as well put all my attention on traditional media. And that’s what I did from 2012 to 2015. I only use YouTube, if you look back at like the videos I posted, they were mostly like, if I was on a TV segment, I would dump it over there. You know, if I had and the videos came up, like once every six months, or once every three months, maybe I’d post out for one month, and then I’d stopped for seven or eight. And I was really focused on trying to find a TV job that wouldn’t really allow me again, to get myself in that Martha Stewart space. And I did four pilots in LA, back to back for pilots neck, I don’t mean back to back, because how pilots work is that you shoot something you get locked up in this deal when they decide to decide if they want to pick it up or not. That means like you get one paycheck for six months. And then they say no, and then you’re back scrambling for another thing. And so I was like, basically caught up in these contracts for six months at a time. And the fourth one that happened was his MTV show, it was called unprotected text. It just felt really great to me, I knew it would be the one I’m like, this is the reason why this is why all my struggles happen. This all makes sense. Like this job was meant to save me and this will be my story. And short, and I had the worst year that year two was the most horrific year probably experienced in my life in 2015. And when that show also didn’t get picked up, I was like, what now? Like, what is my story, you know, when, and that’s one of my favorite quotes is you cannot connect the dots looking forward. And I had a really big habit of doing that. I’d be like, Oh, this goes here that goes there. And then it turns into a star and then I’m successful and life is great. And then when that doesn’t happen or come to fruition, you’re like, left devastated. And that’s where I was, and just had this thought immediately after like, how about YouTube? How about a space where the content that I put out actually get seen by people? How about a space where I’m in control how but I actually try there. And it was very difficult to try again in 2015. Because at that time, one of my friends Shameless Maya, for example, was killing it. I had a bunch of other YouTube people that I knew from over the years, or industry, people who had millions of followers or hundreds of 1000s. And so for me to start back up and make videos that were getting 1200 views, 400 views, like it was kind of embarrassing. It was a really difficult start. And I talked about this one of my videos how I bought views at that time, because I just I wouldn’t, I was so embarrassed to share, Oh, watch this video and one of my friends who like had a following to go click on it and be like, Oh, my God, she’s only getting 300 views right now. And that helped me a lot though, too, because in the first six months that I was starting YouTube, again, I was so hungry to get out of that space. I was such a hustler. And I gained 100,000 subscribers in six months, because I leveraged all of the people that I knew who had a following. And I was like, let’s collab. And I just moved and hustled, and like there’s a few times in my life, I look back, and I’m like, I’m really proud of you like writing my book was definitely one of them. And restarting YouTube, again, is another time that I’m like, I really, really, you know, did something wonderful. And I almost wish I could get back to that space. But mind you, I’ve kind of like, tapped out all my contacts, I gotta find new ones. But YouTube definitely is a wonderful vehicle. It’s a great way to teach yourself, it’s still a great way to challenge yourself. And you have to be in all positions, you got a program director, you are the marketer, you are the HR, you are the publicist, you are the camera person, the lighter the sound engineer, there’s so much learning that you can do if you want to get great at it, there’s a really great opportunity to experience a massive amount of self growth in this industry in a short span of time. I don’t know if it’s the hard thing about YouTube going forward for me is that it’s the one space that doesn’t grow with everything else. And so if you are not dedicating yourself to YouTube, YouTube does not love you. And it doesn’t matter if like no, I’m actually working on this really great show now or I got this podcasting deal or I’m writing a book right now like guys stick around, they’re like, Well, no, you’re not posting you know, every Tuesday that challenge video so we hate you. So that’s the hard thing about it is that you can’t It’s its own separate business model, which I’m trying to navigate how to balance that now as my life gets busier, but I never really want to like turn my back on YouTube again. So I’m trying to find a way to make that balance happen because again, I do really value that space.

Alex Beadon 29:52
Yeah, for sure. And how would you say that it has definitely been a vital part of it. You’re getting

Shannon Boodram 30:00

Alex Beadon 30:02
in your career from YouTube.

Shannon Boodram 30:04
Oh, girl 100,000% I 100,000% YouTube. And I think again, especially if you’re telling a unique story, I mean, if you’re telling a story of beauty or inspiration or a typical human interest story, I think there may be other ways, but because I’m telling the story of intimacy and sexuality, and there is so much curiosity of how I’m gonna tell that story, or what I’m going to say, I think YouTube really allowed me to shape and shape people’s understanding and get them comfortable with the brand. And I’ve gotten a lot of brand deals from companies who normally wouldn’t work in the sex, sex space, or the sex education space, I think because of my YouTube channel and getting comfortable with the way I deliver. So I don’t think without that, I could have gotten probably, you know, it is a launching pad for everything. And where I’m at right now, in my career, it is, it’s a launching pad. So I have I owe so much. So, so, so much to YouTube.

Alex Beadon 31:00
Yeah, it’s amazing to me. So I’ve been doing YouTube for like, I don’t know, five years. And to be honest with you, I’ve always just used it as a place to host my videos, like, I’ve never really used it as like, Oh, I’m gonna focus on like growing my audience here. It’s really just been a place where I put my videos so that I can then embed them into my blog. And what ended up happening is that so many people were finding me through YouTube, keep in mind, my audience is super small. So I just hit 30,000 subscribers, yay, congratulations, thank you. But I feel like for me,

Shannon Boodram 31:34
bigger, crazy world we live in that we say just 30,000 I know, it’s a lot of

Alex Beadon 31:39
people. But what I always tell people just 30,000 Because I’m like, there are people who have millions and millions and millions. But I think for what what I do, because it’s so niche, like, I will never be someone who has, you know, millions of subscribers, because what I do doesn’t appeal to everyone. But yet, I still find so much value from creating content, number one, because I feel like it allows me to, or at least when I first started, it really allowed me to find my voice, you know, and really learn who I am. What it is that makes me special and different and how I relate to my audience. And I think it really helped me find my people. And so I can’t remember where I heard this somewhere. In one of your videos, you were basically talking about the difference between the people who follow you, maybe on YouTube, especially in the early days, like your core audience, and then the people who you might who might find you through doing something like I know you did that show on the view, who you know, they’re not your people, they’re not your audience. So I’d love for you to talk to us a little bit about the difference between the audience that you find on YouTube and the audience that you find elsewhere. Yeah,

Shannon Boodram 32:49
I mean, it’s getting harder and harder to kind of decipher. I do know in particular times, like, my core audience is you my core audience are people who have an active interest in learning about intimacy relationships are just in building connections with people and who are like, I want this content. And they come from many different places. I think the outside audience with people who don’t want that, but somehow stumble upon me. So for example, I did a collab via with the Hodgetwins, which has done really well for me, it’s like, like 400,000 plus views, but their audience I honestly, I love the Hodgetwins they’re really really cool guys, but have you ever watched Handmaid’s Tale? Their audience are like I don’t, they’re just, they are those people who would if they had the chance, put women back in the 1800s. They are sexist, they are nasty. They are just like, I don’t just racist, bigoted, just awful people. And I always know whenever that video for whatever reason hits a spike in views, because I’ll just get a wave of abusive comments all across my channels. And it always sources back to like, oh, there’s a lot of comments happening on this videos, they’re hopping over to other stuff, and they’re just spreading. And it’s difficult, like the view was a really good a great example, again, because I can get very accustomed to talking to you talking to people who understand and who are open minded and who want to learn and who have a certain level of respect. And it’s great, but there are people who have spent a very long time repressing and building up a wall, there are people who have done a lot of work to create a negative narrative in their mind. And when someone comes challenge that they just approach that like attack. And I have to come to expect that because it’s a very sensitive area that I’m talking about that people have beliefs they have had for generations sometimes. And it’s not up to me in one video to change their mind. But that video is there for them as well to it is there for them to see a new perspective, even if they reject it right away or call me all the names in the book or meet me with so much aggression. I have to hope that a maybe a bit of that seeps into their psyche and starts a small you know, spur of change but it that’s the part of putting yourself out there Yes, you, you can’t just want your audience, you can, you know, I think your audience should be 70% Your people because otherwise, I see some people who their platform is mostly negative and mostly attacking and like, Oh, it’s too much for your soul. But it is you do have to get the other people who don’t want you who don’t want your message and who don’t like what you have to say, because that’s who needs to hear what you have to say. And that’s, that’s been something that I struggle with, because I’m definitely a I’m not like one of those, like, take it on the chin kind of people. I’m very aggressive myself. And so you’ll see me like fighting in the comments. And my partner is somebody who is constantly being like, can you stop commenting back and do not do that? Or just block them? Why are you putting this energy out there? But I’m like, No, in real life, you could never talk to me without getting a debate out of me, you could never do that. And I think one thing I learned from the view, it’s a version again, it’s like one of those versions of myself that I’m like, I’m so proud of you because like that’s not the everyday me. That’s the thing too, is that there’s a lot of parts that I’m like, There’s sometimes I do shitty things like, Oh, that’s not a true reflection of me. And there’s sometimes I do great things. I’m like, That is not who I am most of the time. So I think it’s it comes with both, like knowing that, like, I’m not my best self, I’m not my worst self. I’m somewhere in between. But I watched myself on the view and the way that I handled their negativity. I’m like, I wish I could do that all the time. Because it was with grace. And it was with understanding and it was understanding that they’re attacking from a personal place. And if I was more accepting that they were willing to mirror that slightly towards the end. And so that’s going forward how I like to address people, but for sure, I’m just as likely to call them a basement dwelling loser.

Alex Beadon 36:41
I love it. So how do you feel about being an influencer? I think, you know, you’ve been in this space for a long time, I’ve been using social media for a long time as well, way before, like being a YouTuber was ever a thing. And so for me, I’ve looked at how social media has come and I feel like it was a really sweet place. And now it has kind of turned into this hit or miss place where I’m I’m just seeing so many people use it for great things like you, I look at you. And I’m like, Yes, like you’re, you’re moving forward, you’re moving towards a purpose. And then I see other people and sometimes I’m just like, okay, but like, is this ego driven? Like, what’s the part? Like, there’s a depth, you know, so I’m curious about your thoughts on the landscape of being an influenza?

Shannon Boodram 37:25
I like it, I think that yeah, to your point, like the word kind of gets like wrapped up in flat tummy tea and hair vitamins, which I just did, actually recently. So I don’t know, I think I like it. It’s a beautiful word. It’s a really, really, if you just break it down into very honoring word. I used to do background in movies. And that’s what we were called background like, you know, like background onset. And that’s not a nice title. And when you break it down for what that means, it means like, you’re just you’re just in the background, like, we don’t want to see you, you we don’t want to experience you like, we don’t want to hear you for sure. Like we just want you to be somewhere behind. And the term influencer is really, really nice. So I mean, I feel all the things that you feel about it, but I’ve kind of come to sort of enjoy it in a way for what it is, even though it can feel a bit fruity. I don’t think it is for me, but it can feel that way. Yeah. Um,

Alex Beadon 38:18
so my next question for you is your video. My career is not a fairy tale for anyone listening. That video, I think is my favorite video that you’ve ever done, Michael, wow, not a fairy tale, I just absolutely loved how you showed up. And you were so honest. And basically, the premise of the video was that, you know, you’re not always experiencing all of the highs in your career that you wish you were experiencing. And you kind of spoke about, you know, what it really means to be successful. And you had this great analogy of like the waves and how there’s big waves and small waves. And so I would love for you to talk a little on that. Because I know there’s so many people who are dealing with rejection and who feel very discouraged that their business isn’t going the way that they wanted it to go. Their career is not going the way they wanted it to go. And I think a lot of people just give up. And what I love about you is that you always find the beauty in Okay, yeah, things aren’t going the way I want them to go. But like, I’m going to figure it out. And I’m just going to keep moving forward and kicking the ball. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Shannon Boodram 39:24
Yeah, I also think that that’s a part of our job is you have to constantly create a storyline, a narrative, and if there’s nothing happening for you, that’s something to talk about. And that’s a beautiful space about YouTube where it encourages that kind of honesty. And so there should always be something you can create whenever you’re stumped for like I have nothing to say nothing to contribute, that’s what you have to contribute. And so I think when I go to those videos, like you know, Does God hate me and I have a bunch of them that are kind of like that, that are you know how to get naked and when they’re all coming from a space of like, nothing is going good. So like let’s talk about that. Nothing is And that’s a big part of the career that we’re in. Like right now. I am on the show I’m on Facebook’s makeup or breakup. It’s my first series I’ve done so many pilots are so many one off projects, or short term, I worked for MTV as guide to series last year, which again was it was great or full screen, of course. But there’s short term series of like a month, and you shoot and it’s over. Whereas in this show is my first like, six month job like I’ve never had that before. I’m I’m on it from September to February. So for this next six months, I don’t have to feel that sense of like, what’s next, or what am I doing. But in February, I’m very likely to be like, now what because what happens is when we’re working in, we’re on projects, and we’re being productive, we feel really great and energized. But it’s not as if we are, I don’t even know Julia Roberts, where we come off one set and go to the next, if you try to book Will Smith, he’s booked for the next three years. And that’s not the truth. For most creatives, most creatives, you have these really quick spurts. And it’s like I used the analogy of kicking a ball that you’re trying to get to the other side of the field, that you just want that ball to keep rolling, because you’re carrying so much, and it’s very, very exhausting for you. And so you kick the ball and you watch it roll you like, yes, it’s gonna make the other side. And then it stops. And you’d have to pick up all of your stuff, including your pride, your baggage is your home, whatever your relationship, walk towards that ball again, and kick it again. And then you hoping it’s gonna roll this time, but it only goes one more foot, and you got to do the whole thing all over again. And that’s exhausting. But that’s a part of the work that we do. And I was saying to my friend, Ari, one of the things that I kind of realized about life in general is that we’re expecting to have these great years, and we’re expecting to have these great careers and like is really, you know, our 20s to be amazing. I’m like, it doesn’t work that way. You start off having good days, or good day. I’ve had an act 2012 I had one incredible day that year where I was booked on set, I shot this pilot for one day, it was magical. And the rest of the year sucked. No, not subdue. Of course I wasn’t, it was great. I was healthy, everything’s great. But I just mean, in terms of my career, nothing else happened. And the following year, maybe I had one good week, one good week that like of the 52 of the year that I actually felt like I was in my purpose. And then the following year after that, maybe I had three weeks, and then it was a month. And then maybe I had one good quarter. Last year, I had a good six months. And then six months, I was like, What am I doing? How am I making money? What’s my purpose. And this year, I’ve kind of had a good nine months, you know, it’s been a really full situation. Now next year, I can go back to one day, who knows how it goes. But hopefully I’m building up to having a good year and then having good years, but it took time. And part of momentum isn’t like I do one thing. And now everything is great, which for some people it is. But for a lot of people momentum is like you have to really get close to see it. It’s happening on a microscopic level. It’s not even happening in the form of a ball rolling, it’s even like it’s electrons are slowly moving forward. It’s particles that are like inch by inch. It’s cells that are building, it’s slow, but it is happening. And after some time the momentum starts to get faster. I think that if we all have in the back of our mind that we’re not owed a good year, and it could take some time and if we love the process, and it’s a lot easier to stick it through.

Alex Beadon 43:18
And was that? Did it take you a long time to learn that like was it? Did you always have like this inner knowing that it’s just something you have to accept and just keep rolling with? Or is that something you’ve really had to work on as time has gone?

Shannon Boodram 43:30
Oh, hell no. You You saw me complain. So many tears, so many complaints. And it’s like, even right now watch my partner. He is a rapper. And so his career like he’s just getting started like with labels, he writes hooks for different rappers and like has is producing and just getting his you know, those those days at this point, there’s good days happening and great meetings that happened that would nothing following up. And there’s so much sensitivity and just rawness around his career. And I almost try to be that person that I want to be for myself four years ago who whispered in my ear is going to be okay, I try and be that for him. But it goes to that point, like you really cannot connect the dots looking forward. And it’s so easy for me now to say that I make. I’m in the top five percentile of income in America. And it’s easy for me to be like oh, you know, it all will work out and just keep working. And it’s all great because I’m here so it’s easy to say that when you’re in it, it’s you cannot tell that person that you can because it’s like nice to in the back of your mind. But even when you are that person you’re like that’s going to work for you but not me because you still have that doubt and you have no idea if it will ever come together so you can tell yourself those things. It’s nice to hear and I definitely tried to create as many of those quotables for myself or little life lessons. It’s not until you’re out of it that you actually get to sit in those sayings and those mantras and know that they are our true to them. But it’s no no no no no at the time I’m all tears and everything is the worst and I’m constantly like looking for jobs in the newspaper because I think I’m never Ready to work again. That’s where I’m that usually.

Alex Beadon 45:02
I love it. And I love that in those videos, you just show up and you’re like this format is so open and honest. And I think that’s just so I just love that about you so much. How do you balance growth in business with growth in like his, from all of the videos I’ve watched, like you seem super career driven, and purpose driven. But at the same time, you have the self awareness about like, what life is all about and enjoying your relationships and being in your body and yourself. So I’m curious for what that’s like for you. How do you balance growth and business being a hustler with the flow of life?

Shannon Boodram 45:39
What’s really dope about my job is that they’re both the same. And they’re like, every time that for example, yesterday, my makeup or breakup show, and I’m, it’s my job and to what I’m doing, but it’s like, there’s some things there. A lot of that is intimacy, building and intimacy, education, I’m learning things, we had this model that I’ve never heard of before, which is child, the child child to parent and adult to adult, which is the three ways that we should interact with each other within a relationship. And there has to be a balance. I’m like, Oh, I don’t know that. I’ve never heard of that before. So I’m always learning. I’m listening to audiobooks, I’m reading content, I’m meeting amazing people and having conversations with psychologists or therapists who I’m like, You have such beautiful insight. So I know I’m, like really fortunate to be in the space of, I think, I don’t know, whenever people tell me, they wanted to follow my footsteps and do what I do. I’m like, You should. It’s incredible. It’s awesome. It’s so fulfilling. And it doesn’t just help me in my romantic relationships, it helps me when I go and buy a piece of pizza, it helps me in my interactions with my bosses. Knowing how to connect with people is an invaluable tool that has furthered my life and every single aspect. There are some things like I’m not great, I’m awful at finance. You know, I’m awful at a lot of adulting things. I don’t think about cars. So I mean, for sure, my life has not allowed me to develop in areas I think would be useful for somebody my age. But in terms of just having a pleasant life and connecting with people and working well and cooperation based society, like I owe that all to the research that I’ve done. And that happens to be what I get paid to

Alex Beadon 47:12
do. That’s so cool. So you and your partner, Jared are both go getters. And I love his music. By the way, I had him on my Spotify, I was so high on Spotify to begin with. I was like, This is so cool. But so yeah, you’re both go getters. You’re chasing your dreams, you’re trying to make things happen. How do you balance that hustler energy between the two of you with actually making quality time for each other? I’m really curious about that dynamic that you guys have.

Shannon Boodram 47:39
It’s so crazy. Because in my previous relationship, I used to hate talking about work, I hated it. I’m like, can we please talk about anything else, because we just didn’t really see eye to eye on a lot. And I had a partner at the time who was very critical. And so I just it brought a lot of arguments. And I was like, I want to work with you like it’s just like, and so I developed this notion that like an ever more romantic relationship, I really want to separate work from it, because it just doesn’t feel comfortable. And I would hear couples who work together and be like, oh, like, how do you do that that just sounds like a recipe for disaster. But when I look back might know that that that relationship was disaster, like it didn’t need any extra help or additives. It wasn’t work. It wasn’t sex, it wasn’t any one thing, it was all of it. Whereas now it’s like, it’s a natural part of me. And so I need to find a partner who like that naturally makes sense that I can share that with I think that works for both of us. Like we had, we had a guest at our house for the past week was his producer from out of town. And so we just barely got a lot of time together. And so after my show, we came home and went for dinner and like the things that we’re talking about our dreams and our goals and like what we want next for the future. And like tomorrow, let’s plan this out. And let’s do this. And so it’s kind of like it’s our both it’s both of who we are. And so I think it’s a natural extension of what we want to share with each other. And it wouldn’t work for me with a partner who didn’t, you know, come from that same space, who didn’t just want to come home and play video games, who didn’t just want to come home and turn off and not think about work, I eat, sleep and breathe. And I remember, you know, in my past relationship, I was out for dinner and I got an email and it was on my phone. And he was like, you don’t have to do that right now. Like, you don’t have to do that. You can just be in the moment. And I’m like, no, no, no, this is me being in the moment. Because like, this excites me. And I would want my partner to be excited about what excites me. It’s like not take that personal look at that as as a choice of you or that it’s like, I can take this news and share it with you and we can have another discussion and elevate the energy level between us because we’re excited about our future that we’re building and it just, it didn’t work, you know, so I think it’s a lot of I credit that to just picking somebody whom I think is a better fit for me. But for sure, I mean, there’s times it’s just knowing when the time is right. There’s times we’re just having sexy time. There’s times when you’re just turning off watching a movie. There’s times when you’re joking around with each other but a large percentage of our relationship is we are each other’s like school counselors. We are each other’s there. peers, we are each other’s managers. And I think that that’s a joyful place to our relationship, not something that we feel like we have to manage at all.

Alex Beadon 50:10
I love that. And I love you. I know you guys had a YouTube channel, and it’s kind of put on pause right now, but I just used to love looking at the videos of you guys together, it’s just so great to see two people who seem to be on the same page and who have such a deep respect for each other.

Shannon Boodram 50:27
So awesome, thank you. Well, I know you get it too. It’s it’s like, I think that’s part of it, too, is like you, there has to be a balance, you know, when you’re doing this, like what’s making a return. And for both of us were like, this is cool. But the amount of work we’re gonna have to put into this to make it something is not something that either one of us want to take away from our main things like, I want to channel that reaches 300,000. You know, I want to grow and get new projects, I want to write a book next year. And this YouTube channel, if you could help it great, but it actually needs a lot of help. And that will be time and taking away from those dreams that I have that to be honest, are bigger dreams. And so it was like an experiment to see if it would grow really quickly. And we always want to do those like, because sometimes you just you hit gold, right? And if you started doing beauty videos, they started hitting goals, like okay, let me do this. But if you start doing beauty videos, I always say to creatives to so many creatives were like I’m you know, I’m really struggling in music. I think I might try YouTubing I’m like that’s not easier. It’s not as if that there’s not an easier choice. Like if you’re struggling there, it’s going to be the same work somewhere else. So we can try it out. Like if you want to see like, Oh, what if I started rapping would I become popular in a month. And if after a month, I wasn’t popular, I’d like you know, I’ll go back to doing sex education, because that’s hard. But this is hard, too. So I think we were just trying to see if it would be something that was like a overnight success. And when we knew it wasn’t going to be we’re both like not, we’re not ready to do the work for that. And I think that that’s an important thing for creative to be able to do. You can take risks, but you have to know when to pull out and when to do that quickly. And I think that quitting and learning how to quit is something that has taken me some time to pick up and I’m actually really proud of that skill set. Oh,

Alex Beadon 52:09
I love that. You said that so much. Because so often we feel like we’re almost married to the projects that we’ve committed ourselves to. And I just love that you’re just like, Yeah, it’s cool to quit, if it’s not working, if it’s not generating whatever it was that you wanted it to like cut your losses and move on.

Shannon Boodram 52:25
I like quit all the time. I am like I’m queen quitter. I started doing podcasting, like daily podcasting in you know, a few months ago. And then like a few, two, three months later, I’m like, this is not working. And I quit. But why did you stop doing that? Because it wasn’t what I wasn’t getting the results I expected and it was like becoming a mental drain for me. And don’t get me wrong, I get that persistence and consistency and you know, investment. But I’m like I do that already on other areas. Like I don’t have any more grind in me if it was going to be easy. Great. It’s not cool. I’m done with that.

Alex Beadon 52:56
Yeah, you don’t want to spread yourself too thin. Okay, cool. Um, lastly, I really want to talk to you about how you really take care of yourself. So self care, I want to talk about any daily practices that you have that really support you and your growth. So yeah, can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Shannon Boodram 53:18
Yeah, I mean, I’m again, I’m like, really? Yesterday, we were going for dinner and walking, and Joe made some kind of comment about how hard it is and how hard this time is. And I’m like, Yeah, but we still get to because we were watching we’re walking with this restaurant called Catch and catch is like all SUVs and like fancy cars. We should go inside I’m like nah, like I’m not in the mood I wasn’t in the mood for like, do you have reservations? Or like are you drink and get turned away? It was wasn’t in that mode. And it’s like, oh man is this like this thing is like so hard so much rotate. There’s so much this and I was like, Yeah, but like we’re still going out for dinner. Like, at this time, we’re still gonna wake up tomorrow whenever we want. Like, I’m still going to be able to like work out first or do something cool or talk to Alex like, I think that self care for me is just being able to choose what I want to do shit. Whatever that is like choose when I want to shower choose when I want to chill, choose when I want to take an afternoon nap what I want to wake up. I mean, obviously, some days I don’t have that choice because I have you know, a gig to go to. But by and large like I don’t have a nine to five or, and there’s benefits nine to five, you get to go on vacation. You know, you get to come home from work and not worry about it. You got to have structure. There’s there’s two sides that I never looked down at either one because I know. I know keenly. There’s some personalities that are fit for one and not fit for the other. I’m not fit for a nine to five. Mostly because I’m not like good at being. I’m like I’m good at working with people. I’m not going to work in under people. Right? And I’m like somebody who like if you put certain hours on me I’ll just find myself feeling very tired. So I just think I don’t always think self care is self care isn’t the life that I’ve created for myself. It’s like not even necessarily because I’m I have to go out of my way to do because I’ve spent so much time creating a career that is enjoyable for me that gives me the flexibility that I want. I’ve spent time investing in learning relationships and intimacy and and being able to select a partner, who at this time brings out the best in me and has created exponential growth for me, both emotionally and like monetarily like I’ve, since we’ve been together, I’ve gone from struggling to pay for rent to like, being able to pay other people’s rent and being able to be a contributor, my family in a way that I didn’t envision before. So I think that self care is just like, I don’t know, it’s an everything that I do. I don’t do anything. I do things that I hate, like taxes and shit. But by and large, it’s like a majority of my life is doing things that I enjoy. So I don’t really have to go out of my way to say, Okay, now it’s time for Shannon, because most of my life is like things that, you know, Shannon loves. Oh, I love that

Alex Beadon 55:48
so much. You have no idea. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Okay, so I have a few questions that I asked everyone at the end of an interview. So let’s dive in. What is one thing you do that has been a non negotiable in keeping your career successful and on track?

Shannon Boodram 56:05
Preparation, that

Alex Beadon 56:07
share one mindset that every creative needs to succeed?

Shannon Boodram 56:12
Do not connect the dots looking forward, you can only do it looking backwards. Looking forward, you just have to believe in this quote, let me see if I’m right. No, it’s not. It’s a Steve Jobs quote. I will pull it out. Anyways, it’s a Steve Jobs quote that basically says that, like, at some point, you got to just believe in something, you have to have a vision and just go for it. Don’t expect for everything to fall into place first, before you have that thing. And so you cannot connect the dots looking forward, you can only do it looking backwards. So don’t try to assume that if you do this, that that will happen. Because it probably won’t. And you’re going to be devastated if you tell yourself that it will. I love

Alex Beadon 56:49
that so much because it also required it sparks a trust in you that this is taking you in the right direction even if you can’t see it. That’s beautiful. Um, so these are fill in the blank questions. So the world would be a better place if more people knew themselves. That’s good. The book that changed my life was

Shannon Boodram 57:10
the social animal by David Brooks.

Alex Beadon 57:13
That’s a check that one out I’ve never read it. And last question off the top of your head. Who would you like to see me interview next? Oprah thank you so much, Shannon. I love you so much. And I’m just so happy that we got to talk today. I feel like people are gonna listen to this and take so much out of it. So thank you so much.

Shannon Boodram 57:37
Congratulations on starting your podcast and all your ventures congratulations on interviewing Oprah who knows when I’m not saying the next one. But I definitely think that that’s where you’re heading. Thank you. You’re just been awesome. Such a great uplifting lights. I appreciate this interview.

Alex Beadon 57:52
Thank you so much. Have a wonderful weekend.

Shannon Boodram 57:54
Bye You too. Bye girl.

Alex Beadon 57:55
Bye bye. Thank you so much for tuning into the on purpose podcast and I really hope that you had as much of a blast as we did. If you liked what you heard and want even more, make sure you leave a review because it really helps support what I do here on the podcast. All you have to do is search the podcast app for the on purpose podcast, select it then scroll down until you see write a review and then type away at the beginning of the next episode. I will be picking one review one special review My favorite review of the week and I will be reading it out for all of you guys so you definitely don’t want to miss out on that. I hope you really enjoy your week and I will see you guys again next time stay on purpose.